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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What parts of 4E should I bring to 3.5?
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<blockquote data-quote="timbannock" data-source="post: 4462886" data-attributes="member: 17913"><p>I actually do a fair amount of this with Action Points. Basically, I give the PCs 1-2 APs at the start of the session, and will reward up to 1 more for good roleplaying during the session (like, REALLY good roleplaying). They have 3 possible uses (you pick one at the time you spend the AP):</p><p></p><p>1. Immediate action; heal you for 1/2 of your normal max hp</p><p>2. Free action; give you an extra action that round (swift, move, standard)</p><p>3. Auto-succeed one roll you make (attack, crit confirmation roll, save, skill check, ability check)</p><p></p><p>I also use 4e design principles for crafting my monsters. Short-version is that I give them a little more HP on average (unless I"m using minions, then they act like 4e minions), and trim down their abilities and attacks into a suite of 2-6 "powers". An example of a goblin cleric of Orcus taken from the Necromancer Games module, Lost City of Barakus (plz don't sue me; this is a modified character!):</p><p></p><p>Grezzo, male goblin cleric of Orcus 4; CR 4</p><p>Small humanoid (goblinoid)</p><p>===</p><p>Aura: Protection from Good; hedges out good outsider or summoned creatures</p><p>HP 56</p><p>AC 21, Touch 15, Flat-footed 18; +2 vs. good attacks</p><p>Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +7</p><p>Speed 5</p><p>===</p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Smiting Mace (standard, at-will)</p><p>+9 melee; d6+5 damage</p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/r.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":ranged:" title="Ranged :ranged:" data-shortname=":ranged:" /> Light Crossbow (standard, at-will)</p><p>+6 ranged, d8/19-20 damage</p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Inflict Moderate Wounds (standard, at-will)</p><p>+6 melee touch; 2d8+4 damage; Fort DC 14 for half</p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/r.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":ranged:" title="Ranged :ranged:" data-shortname=":ranged:" /> Hold Person (standard; recharge 5, 6)</p><p>Range 12; target makes Will DC 16 or becomes paralyzed (save ends)</p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/c.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":close:" title="Close :close:" data-shortname=":close:" /> Cause Fear (standard, encounter)</p><p>Close blast 3 x 3 squares; All targets are shaken for 1 round; targets must make a Will DC 17 or become frightened for 1d4 rounds.</p><p>Squirrely Lil' Bastard (immediate; when missed by a melee attack)</p><p>The goblin can take a free 5-foot step.</p><p>===</p><p>AL LE, Languages: Common, Goblin</p><p>Skills: Concentration +8</p><p>Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, INt 10, Wis 15, Cha 10</p><p>Equip: +1 light mace, light crossbow w/ 15 bolts, breastplate, light wooden shield, potion of cure mod wounds (2d8+4)</p><p></p><p></p><p>For full-round attacks, I just do something like this:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Dogslicer (standard; at will)</p><p>+9 melee; 1d6+1/19-20 damage.</p><p><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Shield Wall (full-round; at will)</p><p>Makes 1 Dogslicer attack, followed by a Shield Bash.</p><p>· Secondary Attack: Shield Bash +4 melee; d6+2 and target is pushed 1 square and must make a Reflex save (DC 14) or be knocked prone.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I use 4E language whenever possible because it's easier for me to read and comprehend quickly in the midst of combat. But I still use mostly 3E ranges, DCs, durations, areas of effect, etc.</p><p></p><p>You'll notice I took out all feats (any that affected his game stats were simply factored in), tossed out his spell list (any spells I assumed would be pre-cast were factored in), and I cranked up his attack bonuses just a tad (usually I add +1/2 level or so).</p><p></p><p>My enemies definitely are tougher than the CR would suggest, but I sorta eyeball it so that it's more like a CR appropriate creature is a tough encounter, rather than a standard encounter. And I don't send them up against anything more than 2 or 3 CRs above their level, tops (kinda like 4e, oddly enough). To counter this, I often reduce enemies' versatility, slow them down a little (for creatures that have like a 150' fly speed, like dragons), or make some of their nastier attacks dependent on their last nasty ones hitting...i.e., make it a secondary attack that requires a weaker "basic" attack (like a simple claw or bite attack) to hit before it can even be attempted.</p><p></p><p>Not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but I've been running like this for about 3 or 4 sessions and it's been awesome. Combats have been more dynamic, more edge-of-your-seat, and easier for me to keep track of. It takes me like 15 minutes to build a badguy or two, as opposed to 30+ min before.</p><p></p><p>All of this could completely break at high levels though, so know that I've only been doing this during levels 3 and 4 so far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="timbannock, post: 4462886, member: 17913"] I actually do a fair amount of this with Action Points. Basically, I give the PCs 1-2 APs at the start of the session, and will reward up to 1 more for good roleplaying during the session (like, REALLY good roleplaying). They have 3 possible uses (you pick one at the time you spend the AP): 1. Immediate action; heal you for 1/2 of your normal max hp 2. Free action; give you an extra action that round (swift, move, standard) 3. Auto-succeed one roll you make (attack, crit confirmation roll, save, skill check, ability check) I also use 4e design principles for crafting my monsters. Short-version is that I give them a little more HP on average (unless I"m using minions, then they act like 4e minions), and trim down their abilities and attacks into a suite of 2-6 "powers". An example of a goblin cleric of Orcus taken from the Necromancer Games module, Lost City of Barakus (plz don't sue me; this is a modified character!): Grezzo, male goblin cleric of Orcus 4; CR 4 Small humanoid (goblinoid) === Aura: Protection from Good; hedges out good outsider or summoned creatures HP 56 AC 21, Touch 15, Flat-footed 18; +2 vs. good attacks Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +7 Speed 5 === :bmelee: Smiting Mace (standard, at-will) +9 melee; d6+5 damage :ranged: Light Crossbow (standard, at-will) +6 ranged, d8/19-20 damage :melee: Inflict Moderate Wounds (standard, at-will) +6 melee touch; 2d8+4 damage; Fort DC 14 for half :ranged: Hold Person (standard; recharge 5, 6) Range 12; target makes Will DC 16 or becomes paralyzed (save ends) :close: Cause Fear (standard, encounter) Close blast 3 x 3 squares; All targets are shaken for 1 round; targets must make a Will DC 17 or become frightened for 1d4 rounds. Squirrely Lil' Bastard (immediate; when missed by a melee attack) The goblin can take a free 5-foot step. === AL LE, Languages: Common, Goblin Skills: Concentration +8 Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, INt 10, Wis 15, Cha 10 Equip: +1 light mace, light crossbow w/ 15 bolts, breastplate, light wooden shield, potion of cure mod wounds (2d8+4) For full-round attacks, I just do something like this: :bmelee: Dogslicer (standard; at will) +9 melee; 1d6+1/19-20 damage. :melee: Shield Wall (full-round; at will) Makes 1 Dogslicer attack, followed by a Shield Bash. · Secondary Attack: Shield Bash +4 melee; d6+2 and target is pushed 1 square and must make a Reflex save (DC 14) or be knocked prone. I use 4E language whenever possible because it's easier for me to read and comprehend quickly in the midst of combat. But I still use mostly 3E ranges, DCs, durations, areas of effect, etc. You'll notice I took out all feats (any that affected his game stats were simply factored in), tossed out his spell list (any spells I assumed would be pre-cast were factored in), and I cranked up his attack bonuses just a tad (usually I add +1/2 level or so). My enemies definitely are tougher than the CR would suggest, but I sorta eyeball it so that it's more like a CR appropriate creature is a tough encounter, rather than a standard encounter. And I don't send them up against anything more than 2 or 3 CRs above their level, tops (kinda like 4e, oddly enough). To counter this, I often reduce enemies' versatility, slow them down a little (for creatures that have like a 150' fly speed, like dragons), or make some of their nastier attacks dependent on their last nasty ones hitting...i.e., make it a secondary attack that requires a weaker "basic" attack (like a simple claw or bite attack) to hit before it can even be attempted. Not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but I've been running like this for about 3 or 4 sessions and it's been awesome. Combats have been more dynamic, more edge-of-your-seat, and easier for me to keep track of. It takes me like 15 minutes to build a badguy or two, as opposed to 30+ min before. All of this could completely break at high levels though, so know that I've only been doing this during levels 3 and 4 so far. [/QUOTE]
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