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What qualifies a creature as an extraplanar outsider, an extraplanar animal/humanoid/etc or an extraplanar native outsider?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6271561" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>[MENTION=6686357]Raneth[/MENTION] I think you have some misconceptions. I'll clear up what I can.</p><p></p><p>But over all [MENTION=57764]Keldin[/MENTION] is right. Especially in that you would have to ask the original authors why an outsider is an outsider as opposed to a magical beast.</p><p></p><p>In the case of the tenebrous worm, according to this:</p><p><a href="http://paizo.com/PRD/additionalMonsters/tenebrousWorm.html" target="_blank">http://paizo.com/PRD/additionalMonsters/tenebrousWorm.html</a></p><p>It is typed:</p><p>N Medium outsider (extraplanar)</p><p></p><p>It is therefore NOT a native outsider.</p><p></p><p>So let me start with terms. Specifically the three you brought up.</p><p>A. extraplanar outsiders,</p><p>B. extraplanar creatures of any other type, </p><p>C. native outsiders that are native to an outer plane or similar.</p><p></p><p>I'm starting with C. (Native Outsiders). By this I assume you mean creatures with the type of Outsider (native), as it is the only time I can remember 'native' being tied in relation to the creature <em>type</em>. You'll note that regardless of its origin, outsiders do not universally gain the "native" subtype just for being on a different plane. Native outsiders, as defined by that same wiki, are: <p style="margin-left: 20px">Native Subtype: This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>Basically, it is an 'outsider' that is not from outside. It is an outsider born and raised and belonging to the material plane. It is not generally inherited, it is something that this creature is born with. If a devil has a kid on the material plane, they may or may not gain this subtype as they may or may still belong to the nine hells.</p><p></p><p>So, I think you are generally confusing Outsiders (native) [C.] with Outsiders (extraplanar) [A.] which is a subtype applied whenever an outsider is on a plane other than its plane of origin. In fact, as already pointed out, it is applied to ALL creatures when on a plane other than their plane of origin. If an Humanoid (elf) goes to Arborea it becomes a Humanoid (elf, extraplanar). If an Outsider (devil, evil, lawful) goes to the material plane it becomes Outsider (devil, evil, lawful, extraplanar). Heck, if an Outsider (native) [let's say a tiefling] goes to Hades it becomes an Outsider (native, extraplanar). Extraplanar is the transitive property and something it is generally not born with. The kid from the previous paragraph <strong>may</strong> be considered a native outsider if born on the material plane, but if it is not then it may additionally and separately lack the extraplanar subtype while on the material plane.</p><p></p><p>Finally, B. "extraplanar creatures of any other type" applies to basically anything else that is a resident of the planes but is not an Outsider type. This is relatively rare in the grand scheme but it can happen. As for why they exist? I have ideas but as the these creatures are fairly rare I haven't put much thought into it. In general such creatures are rare because if you belong to and from an outer plane then you are an outsider.</p><p></p><p>As for why Outsiders exist as a type, as opposed to humanoid, magical beast or aberration and others (as you said towards the bottom of your post), specifically when talking about the tenebrous worm not being a magical beast and is an outsider? Well I'd have to say it belongs to this final section, B. It is not a magical beast because magical beasts are born on the material plane. It is an outsider because it is born NOT on the material plane. Granted it is not an outer plane but in PF even elementals of the inner planes are given the Outsider type. The outsider type has extra benefits like a lack of most basic needs to keep one alive ("Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep."). The tenebrous worm isn't just a magical beast, it is a supernatural one. But honestly if you don't like that explanation and see not reason why it couldn't be a magical beast then make it one, it doesn't change much. But even in most rewrites there is good reason to keep the outsider type where it is, if modified (my "outsiders" don't need to even breathe).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 6271561, member: 95493"] [MENTION=6686357]Raneth[/MENTION] I think you have some misconceptions. I'll clear up what I can. But over all [MENTION=57764]Keldin[/MENTION] is right. Especially in that you would have to ask the original authors why an outsider is an outsider as opposed to a magical beast. In the case of the tenebrous worm, according to this: [url]http://paizo.com/PRD/additionalMonsters/tenebrousWorm.html[/url] It is typed: N Medium outsider (extraplanar) It is therefore NOT a native outsider. So let me start with terms. Specifically the three you brought up. A. extraplanar outsiders, B. extraplanar creatures of any other type, C. native outsiders that are native to an outer plane or similar. I'm starting with C. (Native Outsiders). By this I assume you mean creatures with the type of Outsider (native), as it is the only time I can remember 'native' being tied in relation to the creature [i]type[/i]. You'll note that regardless of its origin, outsiders do not universally gain the "native" subtype just for being on a different plane. Native outsiders, as defined by that same wiki, are: [INDENT]Native Subtype: This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep. [/INDENT] Basically, it is an 'outsider' that is not from outside. It is an outsider born and raised and belonging to the material plane. It is not generally inherited, it is something that this creature is born with. If a devil has a kid on the material plane, they may or may not gain this subtype as they may or may still belong to the nine hells. So, I think you are generally confusing Outsiders (native) [C.] with Outsiders (extraplanar) [A.] which is a subtype applied whenever an outsider is on a plane other than its plane of origin. In fact, as already pointed out, it is applied to ALL creatures when on a plane other than their plane of origin. If an Humanoid (elf) goes to Arborea it becomes a Humanoid (elf, extraplanar). If an Outsider (devil, evil, lawful) goes to the material plane it becomes Outsider (devil, evil, lawful, extraplanar). Heck, if an Outsider (native) [let's say a tiefling] goes to Hades it becomes an Outsider (native, extraplanar). Extraplanar is the transitive property and something it is generally not born with. The kid from the previous paragraph [b]may[/b] be considered a native outsider if born on the material plane, but if it is not then it may additionally and separately lack the extraplanar subtype while on the material plane. Finally, B. "extraplanar creatures of any other type" applies to basically anything else that is a resident of the planes but is not an Outsider type. This is relatively rare in the grand scheme but it can happen. As for why they exist? I have ideas but as the these creatures are fairly rare I haven't put much thought into it. In general such creatures are rare because if you belong to and from an outer plane then you are an outsider. As for why Outsiders exist as a type, as opposed to humanoid, magical beast or aberration and others (as you said towards the bottom of your post), specifically when talking about the tenebrous worm not being a magical beast and is an outsider? Well I'd have to say it belongs to this final section, B. It is not a magical beast because magical beasts are born on the material plane. It is an outsider because it is born NOT on the material plane. Granted it is not an outer plane but in PF even elementals of the inner planes are given the Outsider type. The outsider type has extra benefits like a lack of most basic needs to keep one alive ("Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep."). The tenebrous worm isn't just a magical beast, it is a supernatural one. But honestly if you don't like that explanation and see not reason why it couldn't be a magical beast then make it one, it doesn't change much. But even in most rewrites there is good reason to keep the outsider type where it is, if modified (my "outsiders" don't need to even breathe). [/QUOTE]
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What qualifies a creature as an extraplanar outsider, an extraplanar animal/humanoid/etc or an extraplanar native outsider?
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