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Community
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What Rules do you see people mistake or misapply?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7105275" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>To be fair, outside of combat, you are not limited by the action economy, and thus, taking actions is moot. You cannot take (game defined) Actions outside of initiative. You can, however, apply the action rules outside of combat, when they make sense. In the same way that outside of combat, you can interrupt someone's action (taking while they are talking) and not have to use any sort of actions. This is something (outside of specific exceptions) you cannot do. I can't attack on your turn, for example. But, I can certainly talk while you are talking.</p><p></p><p>So, something that is standing motionless, making no noise and invisible, is de facto taking the hide action. After all, that's precisely what the hide action IS. It's a case that people are trying to create a specific action for "Hide action" that isn't somehow standing still and making no noise. Outside of combat, you don't need to call it the "Hide Action" because outside of combat, you take no game defined actions. But, make no mistake, that's precisely what the character is doing. </p><p></p><p>It's no different than the following exchange:</p><p></p><p>Player: I talk to the guard to pump him for information about the local thieves guild. I'm trying to be friendly and make nice.</p><p>DM: Ok, make a Persuasion check.</p><p></p><p>The player didn't say he was taking an action. He didn't say he was trying to persuade the guard. But, it's obvious in context that that's what's going on. In the same way that the invisible stalker standing motionless in the room so he isn't being detected by these pesky PC's, is trying to remain Hidden. And, thus, a Hide check is automatic.</p><p></p><p>-----------</p><p></p><p>All this aside, I take a much more pragmatic view of all of this. What is more fun?</p><p></p><p>To me, the "automatically undetectable thing" is just far, far too frustrating in play. Yay, monster attacks, we maybe get an attack, and then we get to play Blind Man's Bluff again. It's just such a HUGE PITA. It's frustrating for the players and it's boring for me as a DM. Add in the extra tactical layer of "Monster can attack OR can hide" makes it a lot more fun to use invisible creatures like Poltergeists or Invisible Stalkers. And, it's not like invisibility is a terribly rare condition. Lots of the casters get it - all the arcane types plus some Druids and Clerics too. Making it auto-succeed makes it too powerful IMO. Especially for a 2nd level spell. It's an automatic get out of jail free card for casters. Drop invisibility, move 10 feet and poof, you can't find me. Unless you start burning actions. Again, whoopee, I get to spend the round doing Perception checks, and if I fail, I get to stand around with my thumb up my rump until next round.</p><p></p><p>I much prefer the "active camouflage" version of invisibility which makes it very useful (no AO's, disadvantage to be attacked) but not so frustrating.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7105275, member: 22779"] To be fair, outside of combat, you are not limited by the action economy, and thus, taking actions is moot. You cannot take (game defined) Actions outside of initiative. You can, however, apply the action rules outside of combat, when they make sense. In the same way that outside of combat, you can interrupt someone's action (taking while they are talking) and not have to use any sort of actions. This is something (outside of specific exceptions) you cannot do. I can't attack on your turn, for example. But, I can certainly talk while you are talking. So, something that is standing motionless, making no noise and invisible, is de facto taking the hide action. After all, that's precisely what the hide action IS. It's a case that people are trying to create a specific action for "Hide action" that isn't somehow standing still and making no noise. Outside of combat, you don't need to call it the "Hide Action" because outside of combat, you take no game defined actions. But, make no mistake, that's precisely what the character is doing. It's no different than the following exchange: Player: I talk to the guard to pump him for information about the local thieves guild. I'm trying to be friendly and make nice. DM: Ok, make a Persuasion check. The player didn't say he was taking an action. He didn't say he was trying to persuade the guard. But, it's obvious in context that that's what's going on. In the same way that the invisible stalker standing motionless in the room so he isn't being detected by these pesky PC's, is trying to remain Hidden. And, thus, a Hide check is automatic. ----------- All this aside, I take a much more pragmatic view of all of this. What is more fun? To me, the "automatically undetectable thing" is just far, far too frustrating in play. Yay, monster attacks, we maybe get an attack, and then we get to play Blind Man's Bluff again. It's just such a HUGE PITA. It's frustrating for the players and it's boring for me as a DM. Add in the extra tactical layer of "Monster can attack OR can hide" makes it a lot more fun to use invisible creatures like Poltergeists or Invisible Stalkers. And, it's not like invisibility is a terribly rare condition. Lots of the casters get it - all the arcane types plus some Druids and Clerics too. Making it auto-succeed makes it too powerful IMO. Especially for a 2nd level spell. It's an automatic get out of jail free card for casters. Drop invisibility, move 10 feet and poof, you can't find me. Unless you start burning actions. Again, whoopee, I get to spend the round doing Perception checks, and if I fail, I get to stand around with my thumb up my rump until next round. I much prefer the "active camouflage" version of invisibility which makes it very useful (no AO's, disadvantage to be attacked) but not so frustrating. [/QUOTE]
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