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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 5775846" data-attributes="member: 17106">The group of 4e players includes (in some unknown proportion) a number of people who play it primarily out of brand loyalty, convenience, as well as a number who are essentially non-discriminatory. In other words, the 4e group probably includes a number of people who will buy a new edition of D&D almost regardless of what it looks like.Conversely, the PF crowd and the 3.X crowd consist mostly of people who consciously chose those systems over 4e, for any number of reasons (not wanting to buy new books so soon, attracted by Paizo's adventures, or who disliked the marketing, licensure, and/or rules of 4e).Thus, it seems to me that, with no particular personal criticism intended towards either group, WotC has a lot more to do to please the players it lost than the players it still has. It's also worth noting that WotC has the option of continuing 4e support through DDI and continuing to profit from it (also discussed a lot in this forum) and doesn't have to throw 4e as it is under the bus.***All that being said, I've seen a lot of fundamental issues raised by 4e supporters. They want short statblocks to make DM prep easier. They want high-level fighters to have better options. They want high-level wizards to have worse options. They want to be able to heal their characters without clerics. They don't want their characters' abilities exhausted after 15 minutes.None of those issues is tied to the major mechanical constituents of 4e (powers, roles, healing surges, standard modifer, etc.). A lot of them are being addressed here, and one hopes in the WotC war room.Many 3e fans have similar complaints about the game, but simply feel that when 4e tried to address them, the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. The beauty is, we have the opportunity to go back, start over, and try to carefully pour out the bathwater while leaving the baby unharmed, at which point, many fans from both camps can be happy. That's my theory.</blockquote>

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