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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 9674218" data-attributes="member: 7635">Which wasn't what I was arguing. What I was arguing is that a lot of cultures separated reality to the worlds of man (by that, I mean the world as we could perceive it) and the worlds of the Gods (a world that cannot be perceived except by those who have unique skills or knowledge). There are hundreds of names for that second world (Heaven, Olympus, Asgard, etc) and its effects could be experienced (Thor riding his chariot = Thunder) but most people could not actually see Thor doing it. Unless you were versed in specific knowledge and rituals (aka magic). And there was certainly low magic (charms, herb craft, folk magic) and high magic (the magic of gods, demons, and the like). Low magic was far more in-tune with the natural world than high magic was, but the line was always blurry varied culture to culture, tradition to tradition. The ancient mind didn't think magic or ghosts were not part of the natural world, but they did know you couldn't just bugger down a cave and reach Hades unless your Orpheus. There was a still a line between the common folk and the learned priests, scholars, or mystics.All this goes to say it's hard to say what abilities in magic belong to which traditions because they are all kind pulling from the same pool of effects. Orpheus traveling to Hades isn't that much different than Dante getting the grand tour of Hell. You're still pulling the &quot;mortal takes a trip to the afterlife&quot; magical effect. Similarly, when a First World Shaman takes a spirit journey to his ancestors, his net effect is the same as Dantes (mortal in the afterlife) despite the methods and experience being different. That said, &quot;magic is part of the natural world&quot; is the best argument I've heard for a spellcasting ranger.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 9674218, member: 7635"] Which wasn't what I was arguing. What I was arguing is that a lot of cultures separated reality to the worlds of man (by that, I mean the world as we could perceive it) and the worlds of the Gods (a world that cannot be perceived except by those who have unique skills or knowledge). There are hundreds of names for that second world (Heaven, Olympus, Asgard, etc) and its effects could be experienced (Thor riding his chariot = Thunder) but most people could not actually see Thor doing it. Unless you were versed in specific knowledge and rituals (aka magic). And there was certainly low magic (charms, herb craft, folk magic) and high magic (the magic of gods, demons, and the like). Low magic was far more in-tune with the natural world than high magic was, but the line was always blurry varied culture to culture, tradition to tradition. The ancient mind didn't think magic or ghosts were not part of the natural world, but they did know you couldn't just bugger down a cave and reach Hades unless your Orpheus. There was a still a line between the common folk and the learned priests, scholars, or mystics. All this goes to say it's hard to say what abilities in magic belong to which traditions because they are all kind pulling from the same pool of effects. Orpheus traveling to Hades isn't that much different than Dante getting the grand tour of Hell. You're still pulling the "mortal takes a trip to the afterlife" magical effect. Similarly, when a First World Shaman takes a spirit journey to his ancestors, his net effect is the same as Dantes (mortal in the afterlife) despite the methods and experience being different. That said, "magic is part of the natural world" is the best argument I've heard for a spellcasting ranger. ;) [/QUOTE]

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