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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 6609952" data-attributes="member: 6786252">Only the Dragon and Wild Sorcerers, though.&nbsp; Favored Soul seems to be leaning towards less destructive and more gishy or support magic.&nbsp;&nbsp; Twin Cast Healing Word, anyone?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It seems that, while the initial spell list is very much like the 3e Sorcerer incarnation, they're moving away from that with various subclasses.&nbsp;&nbsp; Though, lets be honest, metamagic rarely was used out of combat, so by nature, we're generally looking at war magic.&nbsp;Emphasis mine.&nbsp; How psionic of them!&nbsp;&nbsp; Seriously, the big problem is the Sorcerer spell list being mainly Evoker style stuff, which lends itself to the Dragon class; adding more spell variety is the best way to separate them, followed by unique spellcaster subclasses like the Spirit Shaman, Psion, and Ice Sorcerer that does more than just damage.Update the spell list in some new directions, add some more kinds of metamagic options, add some more unique subclasses, and we are good.&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Elemental magic&quot; seems to be a theme in the Sorcerer.&nbsp; Which means evoker spells, which means wizard similarities.&nbsp; Branch out to include things outside elementalist magic, heck, even different styles of elemental magic, and we'll see a perception shift.&nbsp;The stuff about magic spilling out is effectively just having an appropriate themed cantrip that occasionally activates without character's conscious control.&nbsp;&nbsp; Which still should be entirely under the player's control, though, so I'd say that's more of a suggestion than a rule.&nbsp;&nbsp; If we get a Complete Caster book, and articles on &quot;suggestions to playing a Sorcerer&quot; this would be cool to jot down as ideas.&nbsp; As a hard mechanic?&nbsp;&nbsp; No, I don't think so.I think the Wild Mage is currently suffering from non-thematic spells for the subclass, so an update of general &quot;chaotic&quot; spells for the general sorcerer would be cool.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd also like to point out that the Stormsoul benefits (the flying and gusts of wind) are actually side effects of using too much power in &quot;wind elemental&quot; spells.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's &quot;magic spilling out&quot; right there.&nbsp;&nbsp; So, really, that's two subclasses.<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">You know, I always thought that making innate casters of any ilk use material components was odd.&nbsp;&nbsp; That said, Psions, another innate caster, make extensive use of crystals as foci.&nbsp;&nbsp; So, there is kind of a precedent for this kind of thing, but it should be different than a wizard's though.&nbsp;&nbsp; Consumable or expensive material is very much not thematic for innate casters, though.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">There should be a unified spell list, yes, but there should also be differences by Origin, like Patrons, Domains, Oaths, and Land types do.&nbsp;&nbsp; Protection from Good/Evil is a good Favored Soul spell, but does it make sense for (mainly fiery) Dragons or Stormsouls? That said, the spell list is mainly focused on the blasty-dragon-sorcerer style at the moment, so that should be altered in new directions.&nbsp; Tasha's Hideous Laughter could be generic sorcerer, or a psion-specific type subclass.&nbsp; The Sorcerer needs expanded spell options.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> You have magic burning in your mind, body, and soul.&nbsp; Why should that make you supernaturally sensitive to magic?&nbsp; Its no different than the paladin having to activate Divine Sense instead of it being entirely instinctive.</li>
</ul>Seriously, though, I keep going back to just &quot;access to new spells and subclasses.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; I'd also like to see some metamagic options, like Elemental Additive.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 6609952, member: 6786252"] Only the Dragon and Wild Sorcerers, though. Favored Soul seems to be leaning towards less destructive and more gishy or support magic. Twin Cast Healing Word, anyone? It seems that, while the initial spell list is very much like the 3e Sorcerer incarnation, they're moving away from that with various subclasses. Though, lets be honest, metamagic rarely was used out of combat, so by nature, we're generally looking at war magic. Emphasis mine. How psionic of them! Seriously, the big problem is the Sorcerer spell list being mainly Evoker style stuff, which lends itself to the Dragon class; adding more spell variety is the best way to separate them, followed by unique spellcaster subclasses like the Spirit Shaman, Psion, and Ice Sorcerer that does more than just damage. Update the spell list in some new directions, add some more kinds of metamagic options, add some more unique subclasses, and we are good. "Elemental magic" seems to be a theme in the Sorcerer. Which means evoker spells, which means wizard similarities. Branch out to include things outside elementalist magic, heck, even different styles of elemental magic, and we'll see a perception shift. The stuff about magic spilling out is effectively just having an appropriate themed cantrip that occasionally activates without character's conscious control. Which still should be entirely under the [I]player's[/I] control, though, so I'd say that's more of a suggestion than a rule. If we get a Complete Caster book, and articles on "suggestions to playing a Sorcerer" this would be cool to jot down as ideas. As a hard mechanic? No, I don't think so. I think the Wild Mage is currently suffering from non-thematic spells for the subclass, so an update of general "chaotic" spells for the general sorcerer would be cool. I'd also like to point out that the Stormsoul benefits (the flying and gusts of wind) are actually side effects of using too much power in "wind elemental" spells. That's "magic spilling out" right there. So, really, that's two subclasses. [list] [*]You know, I always thought that making innate casters of any ilk use material components was odd. That said, Psions, another innate caster, make extensive use of crystals as foci. So, there is kind of a precedent for this kind of thing, but it should be different than a wizard's though. Consumable or expensive material is very much not thematic for innate casters, though. [*]There should be a unified spell list, yes, but there should also be differences by Origin, like Patrons, Domains, Oaths, and Land types do. Protection from Good/Evil is a good Favored Soul spell, but does it make sense for (mainly fiery) Dragons or Stormsouls? That said, the spell list is mainly focused on the blasty-dragon-sorcerer style at the moment, so that should be altered in new directions. Tasha's Hideous Laughter could be generic sorcerer, or a psion-specific type subclass. The Sorcerer needs expanded spell options. [*] You have magic burning in your mind, body, and soul. Why should that make you supernaturally sensitive to magic? Its no different than the paladin having to activate Divine Sense instead of it being entirely instinctive. [/list] Seriously, though, I keep going back to just "access to new spells and subclasses." I'd also like to see some metamagic options, like Elemental Additive. [/QUOTE]

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