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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 3162504" data-attributes="member: 22424">I've been giving some more thought to the 'Dragon as BBEG' issue. In theory, I really like the idea of using a dragon, as it is the iconic D&D beastie, and I can think of no better monster to use for the climax of that first adventure.However, the point that dragons are also amongst the most complex of creatures to run is also well made. It's also worth noting that if the choice is between having a bad dragon encounter, and having no dragon encounter at all, it's almost certainly better to not have the dragon.But, I wonder if perhaps there's a way to manage that complexity such that by the time the group reaches that point, even a relatively inexperienced DM can handle it. I can't help but think it might be.As I see it, dragons are complex for several reasons:1) Many attacks2) Varied attack forms (wing buffets, crush)3) Time dependent effects (breath weapon)4) Flight5) Spellcasting and spell-like abilities6) Spell Resistance7) Damage Reduction8) Frightful presence9) Immunity and vulnerabilityHowever, as was pointed out, a lot of the complexity really only kicks in as the dragon goes up the age categories. Once you restrict yourself to the smaller and weaker dragons, things start disappearing.Now, if we assume a party of six 5th level PCs, we can identify an EL 6 encounter as the 'baseline' for the game. This makes an EL 10 encounter at the top end of the 'Very difficult' band. However, if we're assuming novice players, we probably want to cut 1 from that value. Additionally, when using more PCs, it's generally a good idea to use more low-CR opponents rather than a single tougher opponent to make up the difference; this might be good for a further reduction to a single CR 8 dragon. (This is particularly applicable, IMO, since dragons are right at the top end of their CR band.)Furthermore, for the dragon to feel properly dominant on the battlefield, it needs to be bigger than the PCs, which means at least Large size. This gives us the following SRD choices:Young Adult Black (CR 9 - probably a bit too tough)Juvenile Blue (CR 8)Juvenile Green (CR 8)Very Young Red (CR 5 - too weak)Young Red (CR 7 - probably too weak, but could be advanced a tad)Juvenile Red (CR 10 - far too powerful IMO)Young Adult White (CR 8)I haven't included the Metallic dragons, as these creatures are colour-coded for convenience  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> One other factor comes into play - it was mentioned that 5th level was good because the Wizard gets the iconic Fireball spell. That would seem to eliminate the Red Dragon from contention, as you wouldn't want to render the party's single best weapon useless for the climactic fight. Of course, you could give the Wizard Lightning Bolt instead, but it's just not the same.Anyway, back to complexity.Using a Large Dragon eliminates the Crush attack. Using a Juvenile Dragon eliminates SR and DR, and also Frightful Presence. So, if we stay away from the White and Black dragons, we're sorted.I also think we can largely discount spellcasting and spell-like abilities. At these age categories, the spell-like abilities are minimal. And, with the exception of the Juvenile Red, the caster level doesn't exceed 1st. What I would propose to do there is give the Dragon some low-level buffing spells, and state in the stat block that these are pre-cast and figured into the stats. (You'll also need to deny PC spellcasters any dispel effects, but as Dispel Magic is 3rd level, I think there are other good spells we can choose instead.)This only leaves five elements to worry about - many and varied attacks, time dependent effects, the immunity/vulnerability, and flight.However, there's no significant difference between the Wing buffet and any other attack form, so the only 'gotcha' is the extra reach on the bite attack. And there's no real difference between one creature having five atacks and five creatures each having one (in fact, the latter is more complex, since each of those creatures also gets to move, create flanking, and so on).Now, how do I propose to handle the remaining issues?Well, I suggest we face them head-on. Let's teach the DM to handle each of the effects separately in the encounters before the dragon, and then put them all together for the dragon. Sort of like a 'what have you learned' recap session. If we do it right, the DMs will suddenly have a "hey, I can do this!" moment, and won't even realise we've been doing a Mister Miyagi routine on them.So, in the first encounter, I would propose a nice easy fight against several low-level humanoids, attacking in waves. Perhaps have 4 kobolds at the start of combat, followed by another 4 1d4 rounds later, followed by another 8 1d4 rounds after that.This teaches the DM to use multiple attacks, and also time-dependent effects. It teaches the players the combat rules, and puts them in a nice easy fight that poses little threat.The second encounter should then feature a creature with reach. An Ogre, perhaps, or perhaps somethingThe third should feature a creature with flight. (For goodness sake, give all flying creatures the Hover feat - again, this reduces the complexity a great deal. Also, although the creatures should have the opportunity to fly, they shouldn't have an unrestricted field of movement. Keep the ceiling low enough that even flying they are in reach of the PCs. Give the PCs reach weapons if necessary.)In one of the encounters, make sure the creature involved either has an immunity or a vulnerability, or both. Ideally, key these to different energy types to those important to the dragon.And then, the dragon uses all the elements we've been using individually.I'm inclined to think it should work. I'm also sure it would take some doing to work it just right, but I think it is probably something that is worth doing.What do you think?</blockquote>

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