What should be a tough/challenging EL for this group?

[Quasqueton]

The party:

Halfling sorcerer 9
Pseudodragon familiar
Human ranger 9
Heavy horse animal companion
Human paladin 9
Dire wolf special “mount”


Over the past few game sessions, this party has been in fights of around Encounter Level 7 -- mostly CR1 (in groups of up to 10) and CR3 (in groups of 4). They’ve considered these fights as particularly tough and challenging.

My question here: Is EL 7 a challenge for a party of 3 level 9s with their extra combatants? Or is this party just not “up to par” for their level? I would think, a “tough and challenging” encounter for this group would be something at CL 9 or 10.

Quasqueton

 

[Sejs]

Part of the issue that stands out in my mind is the fact that the only healing that they've got on hand is a paladin.

Which ain't much.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Officially, the extra combatants (familiar, animal companion, mount) are already factored into a character's CR. So just because the party has three animals doesn't change the fact that it's a party of three, CR 9, PCs.

Fights against multiple enemies are (almost) always more challenging than fights against a single enemy. So that's why the party found it tough to go up against all those CR 1 foes, I think. (Also, there's a wide range of CR 1s, from lowly orcs straight out of the MM to 1st-level raging barbarians with good equipment.)

In addition to the lack of healing already mentioned, this party also may have trouble with its damage output. It has no rogue to flank and deal sneak attack damage. It may have only one melee combatant (the paladin), if the ranger is an archery specialist.

Also, what type of spells does the sorcerer carry? There' s a big difference between a pure blaster sorcerer and more of a utility sorcerer, in terms of how challenging encounters can seem.

 

[Quasqueton]

Just for more info, they have 2 cure light wounds wands and a cure moderate wounds wand. They haven't really lacked for healing after a fight, but they rarely (if ever) use the wands during a fight.

Quasqueton

 

[Rhun]

I should think that your group would have no problem savaging a group of 10 CR1 opponents. Generally I find that I have to run encounters with a EL higher than my PCs in order to challenge them.

 

[Quasqueton]

The rangers is an archer specialist (even firing arrows when in melee range). The paladin can soak up a moderate amount of damage, but doesn't deal much. The sorcerer is a blaster, with evard's black tentacles (which has been a major boon for them in their fights with Medium-size humanoids).

The horse animal companion is not often in the fights. The pseudodragon familiar is sometimes in the fights (though mostly as an elusive extra target for the enemy). The dire wolf is the single toughest member of the party. I know special mounts are considered part of the paladin class, but this dire wolf could kill the paladin (and any other of the PCs) in a straight up fight. The dire wolf is their main front-line meleer (his AC, attack, damage, and speed is all as good or better than any PC).

Quasqueton

 

[Fieari]

Here's an alternative explanation, using ver5 of Upper Krust's Encounter Level rules, which are almost completely unlike the standard EL rules, although they use the same terminology. I've personally found it highly accurate at judging what an appropriate encounter looks like, as well as the challenge presented. Note again, that this is not the standard system at all, and in some cases comes up with much different results.

Under this system, your party is (U_K)EL: 16
9+9+9 = Total ECL 27 = EL 19, -3 for having three party members = EL 16

Under this system, ten CR 1 creatures would be (U_K)EL: 9
3/2 * 10 = Total ECL 15 = EL 16, -6 for having ten party members = EL 9

Accordingly, there is a difference of 7 between your party and theirs. By U_K's analysis, that means that they should be expending about 9% of their resources on this encounter, and they should expect to win about 95% of the time. For defeating the encounter, each of the three party members should receive 337.5 xp (round however you like).

An equal challenge would be one single foe of ECL 4 (CR 3).

This assumes you're using CR 1 -creatures-. If it's ECL 1 NPCs instead, it looks more pathetic for your characters (ECL != CR in U_K's system).

Ten ECL 1 foes would be (U_K)EL: 8
Total ECL 10 = EL 14, -6 for ten party members = EL 8

That's a difference of 8, which means they should be expending about 6% of their resources instead, and should expect to win about 97% of the time. For this encounter, we're looking at 225 xp for each party member.

I'd say your party is a little bit weaker than usual. A standard "Equal CR" challenge that you use up about 25% of your resources for would need to be (U_K)EL 12, which is a single NPC of ECL 7.

 

[Stalker0]

The fact that you only really have 3 characters hurts them as well. In general, multiple monsters are worse than a single, but this is enhanced when the party has less than 4 characters.