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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9358079" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Some do.  I don't generally think they are good DMs.  But like I said they get miffed when clever play wipes out the encounter too.I don't think this actually happens in play.  I mean the option is available to everyone if it is available to someone.This has happened to me (many times actually) and when it has I am happy that the other PC is still in the fight to possibly .... usually .... keep my PC from dying.Ok I guess you found the one in a million. And while I am at it, I don't know why is he playing a Fighter and not a Warlock?  I mean he purposely and knowingly picked a class that is weaker and will not carry as much load in game, right?  But he gets upset when players who picked a class able to outshine the others outshine him.  Let him respec into a caster.It is what I used in my example - Fighter does 8 damage, Sorcerer casts Fear and ends the encounter.It is not just an example it is something that happened in play (I was the Monk).I don't ignore them either, and generally don't do any of that in games I DM. But they are the most common homebrew you will find in online games and are the things I have had players ask me about or ask me to do (usually I don't).As a player, I do play in games that have this sort of homebrew though even if I don't allow it myself.Another one I missed - Inspiration rules .... sometimes every session, sometimes every long rest, sometimes every level up sometimes a combination of those.  Again not something I do when I am DM but something that is common.Very few people post on ENWorld.  Nerfing spells are a small minority.  I play a lot of D&D and it is rare you find that.The only thing I commonly see nerfed at all is summoning spells that allow you to summon hordes of monsters.  I have seen a substantial number of DMs eliminate the low level mass numbers from those spells because of how long it takes to do all their turns in combat.  But the worst spells mechanically - Shield, Fear, Forcecage, Counterspell, Simulacrum etc .....  very rarely nerfed.I have also seen Silvery Barbs banned, but that is not a balance thing as that spell is not OP and is not nearly as powerful as the best 1st level spells.  It is just annoying.  I know it.  I regularly join online games and host online games and it takes longer, sometimes much longer, to fill a table if you are playing a game that does not allow multiclassing. This is true even though most players do not multiclass.As an aside it also takes longer if you play an adventure that is not a WOTC adventure or if you say you are using homebrew.I don't think this is true.  Most players don't multiclass, I do know that.  But most games do allow it.But why is he playing a Monk at all when a more powerful option is available?  The fact that players choose Monks or Barbarians or Fighters at all means unequivocally they do not choose the most powerful options.I don't play the pre-Tasha's Ranger because they are too woodsy for me, but I did not play them before Tasha's either.  Tashas was a huge improvement on the class and not just mechanically.Note I have played Monks (not the ONE version) and Fighters both before and after the Tasha's Ranger, so it is not like I have an aversion to pre-tasha's Ranger because it was weak.I have taken both of these feats since skill expert became available, although neither is a feat I take often.  Again why do we have people playing Fighters and Monks and Barbarians when more powerful options like Wizard, Sorcerer and Cleric are available.  Even more powerful martial options are available than those classes (Monk at high level excepted).  Yet people, including experienced players, continue to line up to play those classes.  I "regress" to those "weaker" options all the time and statistics show many, many players do as well.You forgot they usually get all weapon proficiencies out of it too.  It is a minimum of 4 prepared Cleric spells since you need a 13 Wisdom to multiclass and you get 2 spells with your subclass.If you ask them for a story and you will get one, every time.  It might be weak but not all players are JK Rowling. The ability is not called expertise it is called "Canny" and it doubles your proficiency bonus in one skill, so mechanically it is the same, although one instead of two skills.Because they want it to be a thing for their PC.She started as a Warlock.  The pact happened before the campaign.Hex is ok as a combat spell.  I only have 1 attack unless I use EB and I don't have Agonizing Blast so it is not great damage and Hex is gobbling up my concentration that I could use on Mantle of Majesty or Fear or Nathair's Mischief.  I really like Hex out of combat though, especially if it is already cast and you just have to move it.  I love the idea of being able to curse someone as I walk up to them to talk to them and it fits so well with the Winter Court.The slot rechargable on a short rest is good, but not as good as a 4th level slot. But when you add in the other abilities - extra spells, extra cantrips, Fey Presence .... at 7th level overall I think I am a more powerful character than a 7th level Bard.Yes but you play those levels, so when you delay something you give it up for part of the game.  So when I was 3rd level I did give up the opportunity to have Mantle of Inspiration during thast part of the campaign and that is a killer subclass ability.  I also did not get Mantle of Majesty until 7th level,.  I gave it up at 6th level, again another killer subclass ability.Now if I was starting at 7th level I would agree with you, I did not really give that stuff up.All classes also take a big jump in power at 5th level and you lose that.  Take the extreme example above of a Wizard who takes a Cleric dip for Armor, weapons, spells, subclass ability etc.  That is a huge pile of stuff she gets on that dip and it translates into a more powerful character generally.  But even in this case at 5th level she can't cast Fear or Hypnotic Pattern or Counterspell or Dispel Magic.  The Paladin who takes a dip to get the shield spell can't make 2 attacks a round at 5th level.If there is something I have seen players get upset at with multiclassing it is this - when your 5th level PC can't do the kinds of things expected from a 5th level PC and it is the opposite of what you are talking about elsewhere.  It is players getting annoyed at another player for being too weak and not doing their part.   The 5th level Wizard-Cleric in heavy armor is NOT stealing the show with Fireball or Fear and that is what players are annoyed at.  She went andd got heavy armor instead of getting the game-changing spells (that will overshadow them).  This is still a minority though.It depends on level.  At a few levels (like 7th and 11th) it is more powerful than a single class Bard.  At some levels (3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 20th) it is quite a bit weaker.  Overall I would agree, pretty comparable though.</blockquote>

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