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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 2610653" data-attributes="member: 32164">Cool topic idea Wil. Here's a few of my thoughts.There's a tendency to think that Legendary characters need to be able to "accomplish the impossible." I disagree, Legendary characters, at their core, are about something larger than themselves - usually some ideal worthy of great deeds. I'll give a couple examples by way of illustrating my point. I imagine most people will know these references since most gamers are geeks...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />In Marvel Comics, Captain America is frequently referred to as "a living legend." Other heroes, many of them far more powerful (Iron Man, Thor, the Submariner), are intimidated by Cap's strength of character, his will, and his personality. Captain America is the "living embodiment of the American Dream," and he's at once the most human of heroes and the most superheroic. Those character traits make him a legend.Conan is similar. It's worth noting that Howard didn't write the Conan stories starting from his earliest days and moving on to his later ones. In fact, the first Conan story ever written was The Phoenix on the Sword, featuring Conan, King of Aquilonia. When we first meet him, Conan is already a legendary character - an enlightened warrior-king in the mold of Arthur or Charlemagne. There's also a fairly strong undercurrent in the Howard stories that Conan is a Cimmerian - quite possibly the LAST Cimmerian. And as such, Conan possesses a kind of nobility that is all but lost in the decadent civilization of his world. So again, he embodies an ideal.Most legends are like that. They defend ideals - and whatever happens to them, they are remembered for the struggle. King Arthur and Robin Hood are great "legendary" characters. So are Charlemagne and his knights - as they appear in the stories. Achilles was the perfect greek warrior - Odysseus is renowned for his craftiness. So what makes a legend?1. Determination/Strength of Character - Legends NEVER give up - they fight when it's hopeless, and even when they lose, they win. It's worth mentioning that unflagging endurance is a frequent characteristic ascribed to legendary characters (Captain America, Conan, John Henry). Tolkien even builds it into The Lord of the Rings with Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli's pursuit of the orcs. 2. Motive - Legends are heroes fighting for a cause or defending/embodying an ideal (Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan, the Knights of the Round Table, etc.). They may be flawed, but their failings are forgiven because of the virtue of their cause.3. Intrinsic Strength - Legends do have this tendency to triumph over overwhelming odds - usually by virtue of their own amazing abilities. Sure, sometimes they have "magic" weapons, but most of their abilities come from within - not from without.4. Understandable - True legends have abilities that are comprehensible to everyone. They may be "the best" but their abilities tend to be rather straight-forward. Despite this, they always seem to be "enough."I'd argue that in d20 terms, characters start becoming "Legendary" when they hit what used to be called "name level" - or about 9th level. Up until that point, your abilities are mostly about being "a little better" than others. Past that point, you start being able to accomplish truly amazing things.For the record, my current preferred OGL game for this kind of play is Iron Heroes. While you don't HAVE to play a legendary game, it tends to come more naturally (IMO), because it emphasizes/encourages the following:1. The character's innate abilities over his gear.2. Heroic feats - which start to become truly spectacular around 10th-level.3. Highly competent heroes.4. Cool stunts, rather than simple fights.5. The importance of the heroes in the setting - they quickly become movers and shakers.It may not be perfect, but it takes OGL-gaming a long way in the direction of supporting characters that feel "Legendary." At low levels, it supports cinematic action. But if you don't fight it, the transition to "legendary" games should happen around 10th-level, if not before. I'd argue that you could build a legend around 5th-level characters. If you want it to be more concrete, every player could come up with a concept of his character as a "legend." Then he has to go about developing the character so he'll live up to his legend.</blockquote>

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