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<blockquote data-quote="payn" data-source="post: 9610213" data-attributes="member: 90374">Im gonna come at this sideways, and look at tiers. I think what magic can/should do changes with tiers. Lowers ones like the traditional dungeon crawl skill play experience it should be powerful, but very limited. As the tiers expand it should become more frequently available. Whether controlling, blasting, buffing, etc.. Magic power and capability should be in line with its tier. Also, it should be developed with the three pillars in mind, combat/exploration/social. If a class has magic, it shouldnt be hackable with spell in a can a'la 3E. This allows you to break out of not just the tier, but also out of adventure day design. Finally, casters should live in the magic realm, and not be strong in skills also a'la 3E like the wizard.I actually took a lot of utility spells on my 5E Sorc. I was able to do this becasue of the unlimited scaling cantrips. I thought I was going to hate them, but they opened up my spell choices a lot for utility and I didnt feel like I was forced to grab the usual spells. It flet like older D&amp;D where less emphasis was on combat (although I was able to cast attack in every one of them) and could use utility magic to cool effect.If it were up to me id probably lean away from spell lists for druids and clerics and more towards divine favors and abilities based on specific tenets and philosophies of their belief and power sources. While old tradition might nod in agreement to this, I think modern or recent tradition would likely scoff.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="payn, post: 9610213, member: 90374"] Im gonna come at this sideways, and look at tiers. I think what magic can/should do changes with tiers. Lowers ones like the traditional dungeon crawl skill play experience it should be powerful, but very limited. As the tiers expand it should become more frequently available. Whether controlling, blasting, buffing, etc.. Magic power and capability should be in line with its tier. Also, it should be developed with the three pillars in mind, combat/exploration/social. If a class has magic, it shouldnt be hackable with spell in a can a'la 3E. This allows you to break out of not just the tier, but also out of adventure day design. Finally, casters should live in the magic realm, and not be strong in skills also a'la 3E like the wizard. I actually took a lot of utility spells on my 5E Sorc. I was able to do this becasue of the unlimited scaling cantrips. I thought I was going to hate them, but they opened up my spell choices a lot for utility and I didnt feel like I was forced to grab the usual spells. It flet like older D&D where less emphasis was on combat (although I was able to cast attack in every one of them) and could use utility magic to cool effect. If it were up to me id probably lean away from spell lists for druids and clerics and more towards divine favors and abilities based on specific tenets and philosophies of their belief and power sources. While old tradition might nod in agreement to this, I think modern or recent tradition would likely scoff. [/QUOTE]

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