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What Should The 5E Cleric Look Like?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ainamacar" data-source="post: 5774030" data-attributes="member: 70709"><p>And all of which can be done with clerics. It's immaterial to my post, which was not about whether the cleric class is necessary, but whether it is pointless without healing. I mean, we could explore all themes and niches without classes -- plenty of games are designed that way. So if the best way to address cleric-like concepts is without classes, then by all means we should do so, but that's not what I was addressing.</p><p></p><p>That said, I think it's a given that 5e will have classes in some form, and it's worthwhile to think about what potential forms might provide. As I see it D&D classes generally do two principle things: they define the most basic elements of what a character does (or a range of what can be done), and they define a progression or structure for how they do more things. Both elements are important, and if either one is unique or strong the class may achieve interesting things.</p><p></p><p>Here's an example character format for 5e and how the cleric could look in it as a class rather than just a set of generic abilities.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps characters select a class and two themes. I envision themes as bundles of character options which grant an ability when first taken, and can be used to shape the character via its class over time. They can be cultural backgrounds, multi-classing options, racial progressions, professions, acquired templates, etc. By gaining one or two more over the course of the game they can also be the equivalent of prestige classes or paragon paths.</p><p></p><p>Now, in this vision classes are like scaffolding placed on top of themes which determine the structure and progression of the entire character, and fully embody the theme's major ability. Every class has at least one associated theme to enable subclassing and multiclassing, although not every theme has a class. Still, for people who want to play the Elf class, this is how it gets done.</p><p></p><p>Finally, every theme contributes to a character's proficiencies (or equivalent), skill list (or equivalent), hit points, and so on. That is, these are no longer a function of classes per se. Characters start as a fairly integrated version of their themes. I suppose this is closest to 4e hybrids, but even more general.</p><p></p><p>Supposing that spell spheres exist, the cleric might look as follows:</p><p></p><p>Ability: Divine spell casting (some method of spell resource progression and management)</p><p>Ability: Divine spell access (a spell list made from all your deity's spheres. Perhaps most characters gain spell access one sphere at a time by taking an appropriate theme).</p><p>Ability: Miracle (occasional access to level-appropriate spells, rituals, or minor arbitrary effects that are otherwise unavailable).</p><p>Ability: Sphere Focus (This one might not even be necessary, or better as options taken later in the class. It might include things like bonus spell access, easier miracles, etc. for spheres taken as themes.)</p><p>Class theme: Any single theme for any of your deity's spheres, or a theme specific to your deity.</p><p></p><p>Then some table of ability progression. This needn't be the same for every class, and I imagine most of the cleric's will involve gaining abilities from sphere themes (just like anyone with one of these themes) as well as gaining abilities which interact with spheres in surprising or powerful ways.</p><p></p><p>I think something similar to this might be better than a totally generic way of approaching religious characters using only themes. Yes, the sphere themes are flexible and can be taken by anyone, but the class makes it a value-added operation and adds shape to the character, despite the relatively few shared class features.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ainamacar, post: 5774030, member: 70709"] And all of which can be done with clerics. It's immaterial to my post, which was not about whether the cleric class is necessary, but whether it is pointless without healing. I mean, we could explore all themes and niches without classes -- plenty of games are designed that way. So if the best way to address cleric-like concepts is without classes, then by all means we should do so, but that's not what I was addressing. That said, I think it's a given that 5e will have classes in some form, and it's worthwhile to think about what potential forms might provide. As I see it D&D classes generally do two principle things: they define the most basic elements of what a character does (or a range of what can be done), and they define a progression or structure for how they do more things. Both elements are important, and if either one is unique or strong the class may achieve interesting things. Here's an example character format for 5e and how the cleric could look in it as a class rather than just a set of generic abilities. Perhaps characters select a class and two themes. I envision themes as bundles of character options which grant an ability when first taken, and can be used to shape the character via its class over time. They can be cultural backgrounds, multi-classing options, racial progressions, professions, acquired templates, etc. By gaining one or two more over the course of the game they can also be the equivalent of prestige classes or paragon paths. Now, in this vision classes are like scaffolding placed on top of themes which determine the structure and progression of the entire character, and fully embody the theme's major ability. Every class has at least one associated theme to enable subclassing and multiclassing, although not every theme has a class. Still, for people who want to play the Elf class, this is how it gets done. Finally, every theme contributes to a character's proficiencies (or equivalent), skill list (or equivalent), hit points, and so on. That is, these are no longer a function of classes per se. Characters start as a fairly integrated version of their themes. I suppose this is closest to 4e hybrids, but even more general. Supposing that spell spheres exist, the cleric might look as follows: Ability: Divine spell casting (some method of spell resource progression and management) Ability: Divine spell access (a spell list made from all your deity's spheres. Perhaps most characters gain spell access one sphere at a time by taking an appropriate theme). Ability: Miracle (occasional access to level-appropriate spells, rituals, or minor arbitrary effects that are otherwise unavailable). Ability: Sphere Focus (This one might not even be necessary, or better as options taken later in the class. It might include things like bonus spell access, easier miracles, etc. for spheres taken as themes.) Class theme: Any single theme for any of your deity's spheres, or a theme specific to your deity. Then some table of ability progression. This needn't be the same for every class, and I imagine most of the cleric's will involve gaining abilities from sphere themes (just like anyone with one of these themes) as well as gaining abilities which interact with spheres in surprising or powerful ways. I think something similar to this might be better than a totally generic way of approaching religious characters using only themes. Yes, the sphere themes are flexible and can be taken by anyone, but the class makes it a value-added operation and adds shape to the character, despite the relatively few shared class features. [/QUOTE]
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