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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 6025299" data-attributes="member: 54877">The problem you'll run into with that kind of system is that for the kinds of things where it applies, it will work very well. But it doesn't apply to everything. This is, in part, because a lot of skills are a synthesis of a whole host of other skills and/or (natural) talents.&nbsp;Take for example, mathematics. If you aren't naturally somewhat gifted at mathematics (or nutured very early--we don't know 100% how that works), then you won't be a great mathematician. You might be a very good one. But if you don't work hard at mathematics, then you for sure will never be even passable at upper level mathematics, regardless of talent. Training is far more important for competence up to a certain fairly high point. Talent is worthless without it. It's only when you get to the point where training has been pushed near the limits that Talent again begins to tell. And that doesn't even touch something like software development which is typically a whole host of skills pushed not individually to their limits, but the synthesis of those skills developed to some lesser degree.&nbsp;I've played around with this idea in skill systems, and it becomes more intractable the more you dig. A human &quot;realistic&quot; skill system would:
<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Distinguish between core skills/talents versus synthesized ones made up of many of those core skills/talents.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Give talented naturals the edge against less talented beings when they are shy of some skill threshold, then have training dominate through the middle, then have &quot;high skill+great talent&quot; trump &quot;high skill+less talent&quot; on the upper range.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Have all kinds of ways for complicated abilities to cross boundaries that are a lot more sophisticated than &quot;Dex&quot; or &quot;Int&quot;.</li>
</ol>Now, whether or not that is worth doing, it is impossible to do it with something like ability mod + skill adjustment, or similar systems, no matter how much people tap dance around it and pull some misdirection with flavor. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 6025299, member: 54877"] The problem you'll run into with that kind of system is that for the kinds of things where it applies, it will work very well. But it doesn't apply to everything. This is, in part, because a lot of skills are a synthesis of a whole host of other skills and/or (natural) talents. Take for example, mathematics. If you aren't naturally somewhat gifted at mathematics (or nutured very early--we don't know 100% how that works), then you won't be a great mathematician. You might be a very good one. But if you don't work hard at mathematics, then you for sure will [B]never[/B] be even passable at upper level mathematics, regardless of talent. Training is far more important for competence up to a certain fairly high point. Talent is worthless without it. It's only when you get to the point where training has been pushed near the limits that Talent again begins to tell. And that doesn't even touch something like software development which is typically a whole host of skills pushed not individually to their limits, but the synthesis of those skills developed to some lesser degree. I've played around with this idea in skill systems, and it becomes more intractable the more you dig. A human "realistic" skill system would:[LIST=1] [*]Distinguish between core skills/talents versus synthesized ones made up of many of those core skills/talents. [*]Give talented naturals the edge against less talented beings when they are shy of some skill threshold, then have training dominate through the middle, then have "high skill+great talent" trump "high skill+less talent" on the upper range. [*]Have all kinds of ways for complicated abilities to cross boundaries that are a lot more sophisticated than "Dex" or "Int". [/LIST]Now, whether or not that is worth doing, it is impossible to do it with something like ability mod + skill adjustment, or similar systems, no matter how much people tap dance around it and pull some misdirection with flavor. :D [/QUOTE]

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