Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Single Thing Would You Eliminate
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8235456" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>There are two parts to the encounter quota. First is attrition, and yes by making encounters more deadly you can deal with it.</p><p></p><p>The second is inter-class balance between the at-will classes like rogue (or EB-only Warlock) and the long rest recovery classes (like casters) and to some extents hybrids (like paladin or barbarian). I don't think anyone will say that a single average martial round will do as much as a single average round of high level spell casting. High level limited resources > at-will ability. True and good. If there is a single round of combat in a day, we can see how the casters will be able to accomplish more than the at-will characters. By the flip side of the same coin, if long rest only happened once per level the asters would be predominantly cantrips for the level, and at-will class action > cantrips.</p><p></p><p>So the real balance point is somewhere between - where the efficiency of high level slots and the lows of cantrips and balance out to the same average per action as what the at-will classes dish out. Having fewer, tougher combats that wipe the casters out of high level slots isn't enough - they still have a higher efficiency per action. You need to have them take a good number of cantrips or other actions that as less than at-will primary classes to get their effectiveness per action to reduce and equalize.</p><p></p><p>And it's even more complex than that because a lot of long-rest-recovery resources will last for longer than an average combat, so they are actually more effective when you run fewer combats. A buff that costs a single action and single slot that lasts for 3 rounds is and the same cost but lasting for 8 because it's a longer combat isn't reducing the effectiveness per action, it's increasing it. An easy way to think is a low level barbarian - what's more powerful, a barbarian that is raging every combat or one that's raging half the combats.</p><p></p><p>And this doesn't even consider short rest primary classes like monks, because short rests can be handled in different ways by DMs as well.</p><p></p><p>To sum up: outside of deadliness, the encounter quota helps balance out the difference recovery model classes with each other.</p><p></p><p>Addendum: <em>This isn't me pushing the encounter quota system.</em> I dislike that it's needed and I can't just do whatever pacing the narrative delivers, and where it's calibrated is the single biggest weakness in 5e for me because it's at a place that no one goes regularly except possibly during a dungeon crawl. Definitely it isn't exceeded as frequently as it's short. I wish the design was quite different and it wasn't part of the game at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8235456, member: 20564"] There are two parts to the encounter quota. First is attrition, and yes by making encounters more deadly you can deal with it. The second is inter-class balance between the at-will classes like rogue (or EB-only Warlock) and the long rest recovery classes (like casters) and to some extents hybrids (like paladin or barbarian). I don't think anyone will say that a single average martial round will do as much as a single average round of high level spell casting. High level limited resources > at-will ability. True and good. If there is a single round of combat in a day, we can see how the casters will be able to accomplish more than the at-will characters. By the flip side of the same coin, if long rest only happened once per level the asters would be predominantly cantrips for the level, and at-will class action > cantrips. So the real balance point is somewhere between - where the efficiency of high level slots and the lows of cantrips and balance out to the same average per action as what the at-will classes dish out. Having fewer, tougher combats that wipe the casters out of high level slots isn't enough - they still have a higher efficiency per action. You need to have them take a good number of cantrips or other actions that as less than at-will primary classes to get their effectiveness per action to reduce and equalize. And it's even more complex than that because a lot of long-rest-recovery resources will last for longer than an average combat, so they are actually more effective when you run fewer combats. A buff that costs a single action and single slot that lasts for 3 rounds is and the same cost but lasting for 8 because it's a longer combat isn't reducing the effectiveness per action, it's increasing it. An easy way to think is a low level barbarian - what's more powerful, a barbarian that is raging every combat or one that's raging half the combats. And this doesn't even consider short rest primary classes like monks, because short rests can be handled in different ways by DMs as well. To sum up: outside of deadliness, the encounter quota helps balance out the difference recovery model classes with each other. Addendum: [I]This isn't me pushing the encounter quota system.[/I] I dislike that it's needed and I can't just do whatever pacing the narrative delivers, and where it's calibrated is the single biggest weakness in 5e for me because it's at a place that no one goes regularly except possibly during a dungeon crawl. Definitely it isn't exceeded as frequently as it's short. I wish the design was quite different and it wasn't part of the game at all. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Single Thing Would You Eliminate
Top