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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7543529" data-attributes="member: 20564">Complete agree.&nbsp; That's why I put so many disclaimers in there that I wasn't focusing on damage,t here there are so many valid ways to contribute, and that I was using damage solely because ti was a number we could use to discuss for an apples-to-apples comparison with swinging a weapon.I'm sorry if I poorly communicated and that didn't come across that you felt I was overly focusing on it.That's what this comes down to.&nbsp; The word &quot;magical&quot; is overloaded with so many meanings.&nbsp; Looking at the two contradictory opinions from the original post.We have cantrips are good because they let caster do things in magical instead of mundane ways, from attacking to getting their pipe.&nbsp; From this point of view, magic seems to have two meanings.&nbsp; First is close to the system definition - using something labelled as magic.&nbsp; An attack cantrip and a ranged weapon may have similar mechanical realizations, but at the very least the wizard isn't throwing darts.&nbsp; Though more likely they are doing something interesting - like cold damage and preventing healing with a trade off for less damage.The second part of that definition is mimicing all of the mundane tasks from stories wizards do.&nbsp; Snap their fingers to light their pipes, have quills pick themselves up from a desk and start to write, all of that stuff.&nbsp; Things that make little mechanical effect, but much narrative effect.&nbsp; &quot;Magic&quot; there seems to be able to do things in ways others can't.Looking at the flip side, cantrips aren't magical because they aren't special.&nbsp; They are there all the time, they work at beck and call just like things mundane.&nbsp; They aren't differentiated enough.&nbsp; I think that means that magic should be both rarer/limited/draining, and have more unpredicability.&nbsp; It's something you horde and use, and it's never quite your slave.But that second one is just my interpretation of what's being said, maybe others can jump in for a good definition of &quot;magical&quot; in that context.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7543529, member: 20564"] Complete agree. That's why I put so many disclaimers in there that I wasn't focusing on damage,t here there are so many valid ways to contribute, and that I was using damage solely because ti was a number we could use to discuss for an apples-to-apples comparison with swinging a weapon. I'm sorry if I poorly communicated and that didn't come across that you felt I was overly focusing on it. That's what this comes down to. The word "magical" is overloaded with so many meanings. Looking at the two contradictory opinions from the original post. We have cantrips are good because they let caster do things in magical instead of mundane ways, from attacking to getting their pipe. From this point of view, magic seems to have two meanings. First is close to the system definition - using something labelled as magic. An attack cantrip and a ranged weapon may have similar mechanical realizations, but at the very least the wizard isn't throwing darts. Though more likely they are doing something interesting - like cold damage and preventing healing with a trade off for less damage. The second part of that definition is mimicing all of the mundane tasks from stories wizards do. Snap their fingers to light their pipes, have quills pick themselves up from a desk and start to write, all of that stuff. Things that make little mechanical effect, but much narrative effect. "Magic" there seems to be able to do things in ways others can't. Looking at the flip side, cantrips aren't magical because they aren't special. They are there all the time, they work at beck and call just like things mundane. They aren't differentiated enough. I think that means that magic should be both rarer/limited/draining, and have more unpredicability. It's something you horde and use, and it's never quite your slave. But that second one is just my interpretation of what's being said, maybe others can jump in for a good definition of "magical" in that context. [/QUOTE]

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