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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 3077033" data-attributes="member: 9002">I'll ignore your snippinessThis quote indicates our fundamental disconnect:"Those with effects nobody much deals with, but have fixed effects (Web, Entangle, Mirror Image, Evards Spiked Tenticles of Forced Intrusion Black Tentacles, et cetera) it's just a familiarity issue. They've got fixed effects. If the caster is well familiar, and the DM's got enough of a grasp on them to nix lies, the caster can go over what everyone needs to do, and what penalties they take - Web: If caught in the area, you're Entangled (half move, no run, no charge, -2 attack, -4 Dex, Concentration check DC 15+spell level to cast); if you make your reflex, you're stuck unless you can make a strength check DC 20 or an Escape artist check DC 25 - takes a full round. Getting through the thing means a Str or EA check DC 10, +5 for each 5 feet you want to move. Five feet gives cover, 20 feet gives total cover. The caster that's using it needs to be familiar with it. If you're not sufficiently familiar with it, don't use it. Because that will bite you and everyone at the table."You describe WEB and the obscure effects it has which you need to have memorized in order to not slow up the game much.  You then say:  "If you're not sufficiently familiar with it, don't use it. Because that will bite you and everyone at the table."In other words, learn the spell backward and forwards, memorize all the variables and effects, and poof!  You won't have trouble with the spell.I agree.  If you ALL the spells and all the variables and all the effects, it's not a big deal.  The thing is, most people can't or won't do that.Your conclusion after showing why WEB is, in fact, a pain to use if you don't have all the effects memorized, is "don't use it."That is one way to look at it!Complex Spell (WEB)... if you have not memorized it... Don't use it.Simple.Another suggestion, which I think is a little more reasonable, is this:Complex Spell (WEB)...WOTC should simplify it... then EVERYONE can use it.See?  One version of the spell = only hard-core gamers can cast it without slowing things up.Another version of the spell = everyone can cast it without slowing things up.Meaning, don't force people to memorize a bunch of obscure effects or effectively ban them from casting the spell.I'll not respond to your rather hysterical Summon Monster/Planar Binding stuff.</blockquote>

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