Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 728456" data-attributes="member: 5868">seasong: Good analysis.  I ran some basic numbers myself for the 2-handed weapons fighter (greatsword) versus the archer.  Sparing everyone the gory details, which you've already essentially laid out, here are my conclusions:- Neglecting magic items and spells (which allows comparison of teh relative balances between feats, BAB, ability scores, and weapon damage potential) the Greatsworder comes out slightly ahead of the archer in average damage, while the archer has a (very) slightly better chance to hit.  The interaction between the two depends upon the AC of the opponent, but ends with the balance slightly in favor of the Greatsword (partly because of greater threat range, partly because of Power Attack).  Single handed weapon users fall slightly above or below the archer (depending upon weapon) with the majority below; the TWF is at the bottom of the scale.  This indicates to me that by themselves, the feats are fine.- When magic items and spells are added to the mix, the advantage swings to the archer because of the ability to stack bow and arrow bonuses.  Within the game, this is balanced by the availability of magic -- the archer in theory has to worry about twice as many items as the melee fighter.  To me, this means that the balance of the rules comes down not to the rules themselves, but to the context in which they are applied.- Context is entirely under control of the DM.  Here are some of the considerations: -- Ability scores.  High baseline scores (high point buy or methods that result in high averages) favor the archer, who finds it easier to maximize the two scored needed to max out damage. -- Magic availability.  Because the stacking of bows & arrows is (currently) really only balanced by the archer's access to those magic items, the more available items and spells are in the campaign, the easier it is to swing the balance in favor of the archer, who can pick up items to boost both key stats in addition to the bow & arrows.  Quickest way to restore balance here IMO is to modify GMW, or eliminate stacking of bow & arrow bonuses to damage.  -- Type of opponents.  High DR opponents will favor the melee fighter; high AC opponents, or those immune to critical hits will favor the archer.  -- Type of engagements.  Encounters that begin at long ranges, in open or clear areas favor the archer.  When engagement ranges are short, and more cover and concealment come into play, balance swings to the melee fighter  -- Third-party mechanics.  This is all considering core mechanics only; I've seen more out-of-balance archery feats/PrCs than melee feats/PrCs in non-core material.  What else you allow into your campaign will affect balance between archers and melee fighters.  -- Total-character concept.  Most of these analyses assume offense-only situations.  In an all-around challenge, the archer loses out, since he tends to have a lower AC and HP than the melee fighters (see the stats above).  This is where the sword-and-board fighter really comes into his own, with the dramatic AC improvement over other fighter types.In short -- I think the archer mechanics are essentially balanced, with the cause for concern in the core mechanics being the stacking of magic effects.  If you're finding problems in your campaign, look first at the campaign context.</blockquote>

Verification