Menu
Home
Post new thread
What's new
Latest activity
Authors
Community
Post new thread
Create wiki page
Community supporters
All threads
Latest threads
Hot threads
New posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Resources
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Chat/Discord
Podcast
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Post new thread
Create wiki page
Community supporters
All threads
Latest threads
Hot threads
New posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE FOR 14 DAYS ONLY! --
Archetype Anthology: A Dozen Archetypes for D&D 5th Edition
on Kickstarter! From dual-wielding tempests to planar explorers -- a softcover collection of new archetypes for your 5th Edition game!
log in
or
register
to remove this ad
Home
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What to do about Hypnotic Pattern?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="toucanbuzz" data-source="post: 8084797" data-attributes="member: 19270"><p>One way to deal with cheese is to feed a dose back to the player(s). Let an enemy or two use it on them, in the same way it's being used. However, I've found the best way is to talk to the players as a group about whether anyone believes certain features of the game need to be nerfed (e.g. a gimmick spell or combo). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's some points to make to your players about why the spell is unbalanced as written, and some counterpoints:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Incapacitation is already awesome,</strong> and this makes it better by removing all movement. Bam, you can't do crap. Total removal of all enemies who failed the save from the combat. The counter-argument is that it could, in theory, catch allies and is limited to roughly 9 enemies in a cube. See below.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Deadly to low level or high level foes</strong>. A <em>fireball </em>becomes less deadly as you go up in levels, but this spell remains as potent as ever. You could do 28 damage (14 on a save) with a <em>fireball </em>to four giants, or remove 2-3 of them from combat, given most monsters don't have a proficiency saving throw bonus. No brainer.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>A cube with range</strong>. You don't need line of sight, just some angle to set the cube. Clever players can use terrain and full cover to avoid counterspell, etc. Match this with <strong>no verbal component </strong>and foes might not have any idea where the spell came from.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Doesn't even come close to matching similar debilitation spells. </strong><em>Hold Person </em>at 3rd level allows 2 targets, with concentration up to 1 minute, and like this spell effectively removes them from combat. You can get 2 with <em>Hold Person </em>+ a save each round, or up to 9 with no save each round and requiring enemies to waste their actions waking allies up. No brainer.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>No saves per turn. </strong>Detailed above.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>With a Devotion Paladin</strong> (allies immune charm), you can freely drop this nuke at will.</li> </ul><p>You could offer to nerf the spell a bit. In 3.5, the spell (2nd level) had a Hit Dice maximum of 2d4 + caster level, max 10. The AD&D 2E version (also 2nd level) maxed at 24 HD based on random # of hit dice per level affected and couldn't affect anything above 6th level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="toucanbuzz, post: 8084797, member: 19270"] One way to deal with cheese is to feed a dose back to the player(s). Let an enemy or two use it on them, in the same way it's being used. However, I've found the best way is to talk to the players as a group about whether anyone believes certain features of the game need to be nerfed (e.g. a gimmick spell or combo). Here's some points to make to your players about why the spell is unbalanced as written, and some counterpoints: [LIST] [*][B]Incapacitation is already awesome,[/B] and this makes it better by removing all movement. Bam, you can't do crap. Total removal of all enemies who failed the save from the combat. The counter-argument is that it could, in theory, catch allies and is limited to roughly 9 enemies in a cube. See below. [*][B]Deadly to low level or high level foes[/B]. A [I]fireball [/I]becomes less deadly as you go up in levels, but this spell remains as potent as ever. You could do 28 damage (14 on a save) with a [I]fireball [/I]to four giants, or remove 2-3 of them from combat, given most monsters don't have a proficiency saving throw bonus. No brainer. [*][B]A cube with range[/B]. You don't need line of sight, just some angle to set the cube. Clever players can use terrain and full cover to avoid counterspell, etc. Match this with [B]no verbal component [/B]and foes might not have any idea where the spell came from. [*][B]Doesn't even come close to matching similar debilitation spells. [/B][I]Hold Person [/I]at 3rd level allows 2 targets, with concentration up to 1 minute, and like this spell effectively removes them from combat. You can get 2 with [I]Hold Person [/I]+ a save each round, or up to 9 with no save each round and requiring enemies to waste their actions waking allies up. No brainer. [*][B]No saves per turn. [/B]Detailed above. [*][B]With a Devotion Paladin[/B] (allies immune charm), you can freely drop this nuke at will. [/LIST] You could offer to nerf the spell a bit. In 3.5, the spell (2nd level) had a Hit Dice maximum of 2d4 + caster level, max 10. The AD&D 2E version (also 2nd level) maxed at 24 HD based on random # of hit dice per level affected and couldn't affect anything above 6th level. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What to do about Hypnotic Pattern?
Top