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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5973852" data-attributes="member: 92511">It very well may be. Perhaps extending to the whole area of "treasure."Oh mine too! I would have NO trouble with the kind of plot idea/suggestion/desire you pose above. I think, upon reflection with all of this...it can all be lumped into the issue of "entitlement" that I've seen mentioned and expressed the passed few years.To my mind/view/enjoyment of the game, the players should not have any inkling of "how the story ends." They have a SAY in whether or not they get there, through their characters' actions. They have a say, even perhaps THE say, in how it ends once they've arrived. That's all part of building the communal story.And they have the greatest say in the pace and plot of the story itself...Without the players' characters interacting with the game world there would BE no game/story. The DM causes appropriate reactions in the world to those actions and the game/story moves on.But the idea that the player knows they're getting X amount of treasure at the end of the rainbow...with Y and Z items that they requested (because the books said they should/could)...the expectation that they WILL get to the end of the rainbow, at all, because everything they come up against will be "balanced" or "level appropriate" or should be "designed to be overcome"...that they expect to succeed, practically regardless of their choices, and if they somehow don't the DM is "doing it wrong" or "screwing them" somehow...These things just all elicit a knee-jerk reaction from me of "NUH UH!"Where's the challenge? Where's the risk? Where's the fun of the adventure? Just give them whatever they ask for. Ok, you're all uber epic lords and masters of your respective classes. We'll spend another hour making you another batch of heroes [or superheroes] without ever having to roll a single die.If the books are basically telling them, both players AND DMs, that this is how the game is supposed to work then it's difficult to argue anything else...Can be done, certainly (house rules and all of that). But just much more difficult to get certain types of players to agree to it...usually, "cuz the book(s) sez so!" And I don't want to see that in 5e.But...this seems to all be getting a bit off topic of the 15 minute work day. It's all connected...somehow, hahaha, in my head...but I can't really put it into clearer terms. The books should not be presenting the game as "you will be able to this and you will receive that for your troubles." You are trying succeed in the game world and situations set before you. You are not entitled or should even necessarily expect to succeed at everything. Not sure if that clears anything up or muddies the waters further. hahaha. But there it is.Happy Friday all.--SD</blockquote>

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