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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Necros" data-source="post: 2425518" data-attributes="member: 18768">Basically we have two power gaming rules lawyers, who see the in game world in a totally different way than the DM and the rest of the players.  Strangely enough the way they see the world is always in theor favor.  Both of them are actually lawyers IRL, and can never be wrong.One player likes to be overbearing, has issues dealing with women gamers, and likes to talk down to players who disagree with his rules interpretations.  Sometimes he is right, but when that is the case rather than just accepting the fact that he won the argument, he likes to make the loser feel stupid.  He also is playing a Neutral PC in an evil campaign, and likes to stall the gmeplay to argue his personal interpretation of games rules, and the setting.The second player wants to be in charge all of the time and dominate the table, but wont admit it.  He has very little grasp of the rules, though he tries to rules lawyer.  He is friends with player one and they always agree with each other, and the rest of us are obviously crazy.  Player two asks for little concessions, and tries to win points by being overtly reasonable; if he doesn't get his way he starts whining.  If you give him anything he is not happy he instead asks for more concessions.  Though he does not want to make a leader type PC, he wants to be in charge of the game group and run everything.This is just my perspective of course, but it is their personalities that I am responding to.  I have seen my own DMing fade under their assult, and lose its vibrancy.  The other players seem to lose themselves in all the discussion that goes on, when we should be roleplaying, and everything about the game has become a beurocratic nightmare.  We can no longer just divide the treasure after adventures, there is now a process that we have to go through.  If anyone speaks out, they are squashed, even though there are 4 other players at he table and a DM.  One of the reasons this is an issue is the appearant reasonableness of their approach.  THe problem is that while they appear reasonable, in actuality they are not.  And these two players are forming a clique inside the game group, working against he rest of the group in favor of themselves.Anyway, we have had this grow over about a years time, to where it is now becoming an issue.  We have had two DM's in that time and the issues have continued to mount up.  Though we are attempting to compromise the problems get worse.  I just want tot get some ideas on where to go from here.</blockquote>

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