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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DarrenGMiller" data-source="post: 2425989" data-attributes="member: 23174">As I have stated in a few other thread, I have been there.  My players could easily have been the same ones you mention.  I did not see the justification to kick them out until after they were long gone.  My "rule #1"  now is:  "If the players do not buy in to the basic philosophy of running the game that the DM holds, the game will fail."  I have adapted this from some teaching materials (I teach high school).  It has proven true time and again in my experience.Seriously, split the group.  I fought against it too.  I denied that it was necessary.  I thought of every reason and justifcation for keeping them.  I rationalized that it wasn't that bad.  I despaired that their absence would destroy the group.  I was wrong on all counts.  When the time finally came, there were some painful, awkward weeks.  I took 6 weeks off from the game.  It was tough.  In the long run, it was the best thing I did for the game.  I know that not every situation is the same, but if you asked us, you were already thinking about it.  Go with that gut feeling.The game belongs to everybody at the table, especially the DM.  It is easier for them to find a new group that suits their style than for everyone else at the table to regain their sanity and enjoyment after the game implodes.No matter how nice they are out of game or how much you think they are your friends or that you need them at the gaming table, this is not game style, it is disagreeable personalities being played out at the table.  You see, people tend to act in a way at the gaming table that would be destructive if they acted that way in the "real world."  Since this is a fantasy world, they let their inner jerk come out at the table andit is the place they think that they can act like they really want to act, but know that the world would not tolerate.  It really comes out in the game.  You and your group don't have to tolerate it either.In my experience, talking about their problems with people who act like this will either breed hidden resentment because they don't see the results of their actions, or bring improvement on the short term with the behavior surfacing more dramatically once they have repressed their inner emotions as long as they can.You will be much happier and your group will thank you if you ask them nicely and in an appropriate manner to leave.DM</blockquote>

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