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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6170553" data-attributes="member: 177">Um, have you actually ever done a jigzaw puzzle?&nbsp; You know why they are considered more difficult as the number of pieces increases?&nbsp; Because it becomes more difficult to see the forest for the tress, rather than less.&nbsp; Given the description you've given us so far, giving more pieces may not be the best solution.&nbsp; *Repeating* pieces, so their relevance becomes clear, might help.&nbsp; I think the &quot;modern gamers&quot; crack is dismissive and getting in your way.&nbsp; Maybe you personally were a creative prodigy, but gamer-skills and patterns are generally learned things.&nbsp;&nbsp; That means they need to be taught.&nbsp; It is not enough to make it an option.&nbsp; You have to demonstrate that the option functions, and how you expect them to exercise it.&nbsp; We tend to forget, decades later, our own learning processes, and how they worked, and so then say that they didn't even happen!&nbsp; We then attribute the issue to a flaw of character in whoever doesn't play like we do.Remember that most of the rulebook is about combat.&nbsp; They know full well that the bad guy has hit points, and if they whittle away at those hit points, eventually they may be able to succeed over the monster.&nbsp; The same is not true of the social skills.&nbsp; In fact, you took out the one social skill with fairly clear and unambiguous use!&nbsp; The rest of those skills a pretty much a &quot;black box&quot; to the players - the way to use them to get what they want is unclear.&nbsp; Unless you give them a framework (like, say, a skill challenge), or at least demonstrate them in action, they don't know how likely they are to succeed with them unless you teach them.And that's if they even want to play the type of game you're presenting.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6170553, member: 177"] Um, have you actually ever done a jigzaw puzzle? You know why they are considered more difficult as the number of pieces increases? Because it becomes more difficult to see the forest for the tress, rather than less. Given the description you've given us so far, giving more pieces may not be the best solution. *Repeating* pieces, so their relevance becomes clear, might help. I think the "modern gamers" crack is dismissive and getting in your way. Maybe you personally were a creative prodigy, but gamer-skills and patterns are generally learned things. That means they need to be taught. It is not enough to make it an option. You have to demonstrate that the option functions, and how you expect them to exercise it. We tend to forget, decades later, our own learning processes, and how they worked, and so then say that they didn't even happen! We then attribute the issue to a flaw of character in whoever doesn't play like we do. Remember that most of the rulebook is about combat. They know full well that the bad guy has hit points, and if they whittle away at those hit points, eventually they may be able to succeed over the monster. The same is not true of the social skills. In fact, you took out the one social skill with fairly clear and unambiguous use! The rest of those skills a pretty much a "black box" to the players - the way to use them to get what they want is unclear. Unless you give them a framework (like, say, a skill challenge), or at least demonstrate them in action, they don't know how likely they are to succeed with them unless you teach them. And that's if they even want to play the type of game you're presenting. [/QUOTE]

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