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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 8046654">Then we are in agreement.&nbsp; I never said (and in fact have repeatedly denied) that I think non-ASI racials have zero class bias, just that they have less class bias.&nbsp; (Where I'm defining &quot;class bias&quot; to mean the extent to which any ability favors one or some classes over others.). Nor do I claim that ASIs have so much bias that there is 100% correlation with class choice.&nbsp; So anything we can do to reduce class bias will also reduce the incentive, the pressure, to choose certain classes.Just like Crimson has repeatedly explained that even though racial ASIs are only partly effective at achieving his goals, it's better than nothing, and progress toward reducing class bias is, well, progress.Sure.&nbsp; But in my experience (important caveat) sending the rogue ahead solo to scout in the absolute darkness is just not all that big of a factor.&nbsp; Yeah, it happens.&nbsp; But not nearly as frequently as the rogue making a roll with a Dexterity bonus.Again, if the creatures are awake, they already have light sources.&nbsp; If they're asleep in the dark, then it matters less that you have your own light source.And I'm not arguing it's not useful for a rogue; it is.&nbsp; Probably moreso than for other classes (except Monk and Ranger) but:It's less powerful than +2 Dex for rogues (I should write a macro for pasting &quot;just look at the data&quot;).It's generally useful for all classes.&nbsp; More useful than most attribute bonuses, especially Strength, Int, and Charisma.So many races have Darkvision that it still leaves a lot of choices.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 8046654"] Then we are in agreement. I never said (and in fact have repeatedly denied) that I think non-ASI racials have [I]zero[/I] class bias, just that they have [I]less[/I] class bias. (Where I'm defining "class bias" to mean the extent to which any ability favors one or some classes over others.). Nor do I claim that ASIs have so much bias that there is 100% correlation with class choice. So anything we can do to reduce class bias will also reduce the incentive, the pressure, to choose certain classes. Just like Crimson has repeatedly explained that even though racial ASIs are only [I]partly[/I] effective at achieving his goals, it's better than nothing, and progress toward reducing class bias is, well, progress. Sure. But in my experience (important caveat) sending the rogue ahead solo to scout in the absolute darkness is just not all that big of a factor. Yeah, it happens. But not nearly as frequently as the rogue making a roll with a Dexterity bonus. Again, if the creatures are awake, they already have light sources. If they're asleep in the dark, then it matters less that you have your own light source. And I'm not arguing it's not [I]useful[/I] for a rogue; it is. Probably moreso than for other classes (except Monk and Ranger) but: It's [I]less[/I] powerful than +2 Dex for rogues (I should write a macro for pasting "just look at the data"). It's [I]generally[/I] useful for all classes. More useful than most attribute bonuses, especially Strength, Int, and Charisma. So many races have Darkvision that it still leaves a lot of choices. [/QUOTE]

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