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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Junkheap" data-source="post: 226382" data-attributes="member: 768">I am sorry, but i think the most people that play rogues here do not play rogues up to thier full potential.  Any rogue worth his salt would take tumble and MAX it out, and it doesnt take long to make a tumble check of 25 trivial.  This makes sneak attacking a JOKE.I started this tumble stupidity in the campaigns i play in, and even I realize that it is dumb.I can run through a gelatinous cube that takes up the whole path in front of me with a roll of 25??? Give me a break.  Its that there NO difference between tumbling through a 20 lvl anything vs a pile of crap.  Its still dc 25.Gee let me protect my king from any attacks coming my way.  O no!, the damn rogue ran through my defense NO problem.  Ge combat reflex doesnt matter.  Even better, the rogue tells the fighter to do it first and take the AOO's and then the rogue runs in.Its the same problem as in 2e.  You could just walk around anything and get to the main Boss as you call it.  The tumble variant we use is the same base dc's except modified by the dex bonus of the defender.  We figure more dextrous creatures would make it harder to tumble through.  But no matter what the dex, even if its a penalty, the base dc's always stand.</blockquote>