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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 9067122" data-attributes="member: 6777737">I think this speaks to the fundamental issue for why so many classes get spells. Even something like adding graduated success to the skills like Pathfinder 2e or PbtA just doesn't help because at their core skills just do less. The spell system is so overwhelmingly better than any other mechanic or system in the whole game that when they add a new mechanic, it's unimpactful by comparison. So, everyone complains that the new mechanic doesn't do enough and is boring. If they were to introduce more mechanics that would keep up with spells it would be clear that they're just superpowers, while simultaneously further eclipsing every other mechanic that isn't spellcasting even more. So everyone just gets spells because that's known and available.I had an opportunity while playing Descent to Avernus to play the game with no primary spellcasters for several months. We had an Artificer, Ranger, Paladin, Monk, and Rogue/Barbarian (not multiclass, the Rogue died and was replaced with a Barbarian). And the game felt amazing the entire time. From level 4 to level 11, we had a ball. Everyone felt important to the group, and all resources felt important. Then at level 12, one of the players we have returned from a long absence and started playing their Wizard again. And immediately, the game was about what the Wizard could solve for us. It was one of the most stark lessons in how weirdly warped the game is. Things that would take the whole party working together with spells and skills suddenly were solved with a single Wizard spell. It really soured our experience with 5e, I think, because we haven't started another D&amp;D campaign since then.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 9067122, member: 6777737"] I think this speaks to the fundamental issue for why so many classes get spells. Even something like adding graduated success to the skills like Pathfinder 2e or PbtA just doesn't help because at their core skills just [I]do less[/I]. The spell system is so [I]overwhelmingly[/I] better than any other mechanic or system in the whole game that when they add a new mechanic, it's unimpactful by comparison. So, everyone complains that the new mechanic doesn't do enough and is boring. If they were to introduce more mechanics that would keep up with spells it would be clear that they're just superpowers, while simultaneously further eclipsing every other mechanic that isn't spellcasting even more. So everyone just gets spells because that's known and available. I had an opportunity while playing Descent to Avernus to play the game with [I]no[/I] primary spellcasters for several months. We had an Artificer, Ranger, Paladin, Monk, and Rogue/Barbarian (not multiclass, the Rogue died and was replaced with a Barbarian). And the game felt [I]amazing [/I]the entire time. From level 4 to level 11, we had a ball. Everyone felt important to the group, and all resources felt important. Then at level 12, one of the players we have returned from a long absence and started playing their Wizard again. And immediately, the game was about what the Wizard could solve for us. It was one of the most stark lessons in how weirdly warped the game is. Things that would take the whole party working together with spells and skills suddenly were solved with a single Wizard spell. It really soured our experience with 5e, I think, because we haven't started another D&D campaign since then. [/QUOTE]

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