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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9727411" data-attributes="member: 18">I mean, that's just nonsensical.By that exact logic, nothing say, an Olympic gymnast does is all that hard, because most gymnasts above a certain level could, if they tried over and over and over again, eventually manage to perform each of the manuevers separately. If you could quicksave in real life and just keep reloading until you finally managed to pull something off, everything would be a lot easier. That's an extreme example but it's true in parts of of life and sport and games - people don't go around a racetrack once and call it done, because that doesn't test much but luck and starting position. I could go on. A huge proportion of tests of skill involve repetition, perhaps the vast majority. A fencing match isn't over on the first hit.It's obviously not the same between being able to reload from anything, or reload just even improve how well you won, as having to manage to actually complete something in a single go, and to live with the consequences of bad rolls and bad choices (which can actually be pretty interesting and lead you into seeing a lot of parts of games you might not otherwise see. It's not helpful to anyone to suggest it is. It's not truthful either, to yourself or others.That's not to say there aren't games which match your description, but they're not usually ones with Iron Man or the like. What you're describing is more like early MMORPGs. They indeed were not "hard", merely incredibly time-consuming and tedious. And you get grinding games today like that, where you respawn basically instantly, and can just keep throwing yourself at something until you do succeed - that functionally, is very similar to quicksave/quickload. Again though that's for a very different kind of game.To be clear, it's fine to not want to play games that have Iron Man or Roguelike/Roguelite structures, which are what you're objecting (your objection applies to literally every Roguelike), but it isn't just "long" or w/e, because it requires you to get multiple things right in a row. Something a lot of people can't manage - which is fine - a lot of game modes for a lot of games aren't for everyone. I loathe a lot of kind of PvP (and like some others), for example. The living with consequences thing alone is a huge difference.I mean, if you disagree, perhaps you could provide specific examples of games you thing are merely repetitive, not actually hard? Because they are out there, for sure, but they're not the kind of games we're discussing.(Plus there's the ongoing issue of bugs/crashes/misclicks ruining runs, which also applies to Roguelikes, though usually they have better mitigation - not always though - Caves of Qud is an amazing true Roguelike but the wrong misclick could absolutely put you in a terminal situation! That by itself is a good reason not to want to play them)</blockquote>

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