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<blockquote data-quote="SSquirrel" data-source="post: 4133709" data-attributes="member: 5202">But it isn't &quot;4e as we wish it had been&quot;.&nbsp; At least not for me.&nbsp; I don't want something that keeps many aspects of things of 3E that I had problems with.&nbsp; Building a house w/a cracked foundation and all that.&nbsp; Other games based on d20 that I really enjoy have some of the same fundamental flaws, but fix others.&nbsp; For example, nothing in Arcana Evolved reduces the Christmas tree factor, but the removal of alignment, drastic lessening of save or die, new approach to what were getting to be dull class options (for me) and the removal of the arcane/divine split, plus a generally more flexible magic system make it much more palatable to me.I don't care that 4E isn't D&amp;D 3.6.&nbsp; Imagine how much worse the griping about a new edition would be if it were.&nbsp; They are leaving behind a lot of things that IMO were not truly needed in the game and served to lessen the experience of those around the table.&nbsp; Some things are functioning differently (trip to a degree, tho you could likely do a Str vs Reflex attack and trip someone whenever you want) but until I have it in hand I won't know if it's different bad or good.&nbsp; I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt tho.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SSquirrel, post: 4133709, member: 5202"] But it isn't "4e as we wish it had been". At least not for me. I don't want something that keeps many aspects of things of 3E that I had problems with. Building a house w/a cracked foundation and all that. Other games based on d20 that I really enjoy have some of the same fundamental flaws, but fix others. For example, nothing in Arcana Evolved reduces the Christmas tree factor, but the removal of alignment, drastic lessening of save or die, new approach to what were getting to be dull class options (for me) and the removal of the arcane/divine split, plus a generally more flexible magic system make it much more palatable to me. I don't care that 4E isn't D&D 3.6. Imagine how much worse the griping about a new edition would be if it were. They are leaving behind a lot of things that IMO were not truly needed in the game and served to lessen the experience of those around the table. Some things are functioning differently (trip to a degree, tho you could likely do a Str vs Reflex attack and trip someone whenever you want) but until I have it in hand I won't know if it's different bad or good. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt tho. [/QUOTE]

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