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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WayneLigon" data-source="post: 4039074" data-attributes="member: 3649">Don't be deliberately obtuse. He's mentioning things that are considered to be fairly extreme cases of people deliberately mining the rules for the most synergestic advantages they can come up with, but things that are known and smoewhat common. While they don't actually break the rules, they break the spirit of the game. It's a perfectly good example of the kinds of challenges you're going to face if you have players even remotely interested in creating 'good characters'. I'm not talking about questionable interpretations of the rules or some shady math or other things that are borderline cheating - I'm talking about perfectly good, solid rules and characters that - when certain combinations are brought into play, become vastly more competant than those around them.The simple fact of the matter is that the players have the major advantage of having to focus on one set of stats and keep those stats over a period of time until they become very familiar with them. As a GM, that doesn't happen; I'd have to do five or six times the work they'd do, and continue to do that every week, to continue to present a reasonable challenge to them.I used to be a doubter as well. I'd GMed an Arcana Unearthed game to 16th level and found it not very daunting at all. Then I played in a 3.5 game up to 15th level and I just came off a stint of almost a year Gming a 3.5 game where they got to 15th level. It was enough to put me off GMing D&D for some time to come and by the end I was practically cheating - I'd make NPCs and Monsters that had three lines of stats: HP, AC, their main attack and secondary attacks, and any special abilities and I'd just wing it. It was still a royal pain to create NPCs and use certain monsters.I'm not a detail-oriented person. I don't have a good memory, either. After about 10th level, the sheet amount of detail to even a simple single-class PC is starting to become daunting to me. I'll see how 4E plays out, but at this particular point in time I might not return to D&D for awhile. The sheer number of interactions among the rules is just not something I want to deal with right now. Part of me looks forward to 4E while another part of me says 'Any RPG that's longer than about 150 pages is too damn complex for me to bother with'.</blockquote>

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