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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tx7321" data-source="post: 3233485" data-attributes="member: 43146">J-Dawg, I didn't say todays stuff was "dungeonpunk" just that it has elements of it.  Todays stuff is "something unique" to be sure. Melan: "Otus, DCS and especially Dee had little to do with mediaeval fashion. Maybe Trampier"  Sure, but their clothing was very fantasy generic.  Frezetta, as much as I love his work, was pretty much focusing on Conan setting stuff (mostly outside, muscular, brutal strength of half naked savage men, total T&A for the chicks...very fighter focused, not into MUs or thief types much; he just wasn't about AD&D or OD&D (ie. average guys of varying professions and varying attributes doing extra-ordinary things down underground). He'd have been a poor match for AD&D if you think about it (you'd feel like your puney 12 str. fighter would be crushed by the first half naked Barbarian type you encountered).  AD&Ds persons were relatable, (30-40 year old guys with beards and partly balding, slightly overwieght at times, while others are hardened as if  weathered, shaped by experiance and training, but not overly-so) "hey I can picture being down there with these guys" is what you think when you see them. And the setting he chose was "generic fairy tale fantasy" like Tolkien.  So, it was  a tool to foster emmersion in a HIS and ARNESON'S "dungeon crawl" setting.  The sheer variety of body types, ages and clothing, allowed you to picture what it would be like to be those different sorts.  Frezetta was a body builder, loved that theme, and would probably have had his muscular fighter types squashing the weaklings around them.....as they should.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  But thats "Savage Swords" not Tolkein. Picturing yourself as a perfect swimsuit model in almost nothing, or spikey armor that would snag on everything, down in a dungeon crawling with God knows what, cold and damp...thats just unrelatable and unrealistic. It may be good art, but doesn't help with emersion much.   I really think the shift in art (Dragon lance and on) reflects a change in the commercial direction TSR wanted to go (with launching novels, and pumping out series to really bring in huge amounts of revenue etc.), it attracted a different sort of  player (and a shift in marketing strategy by TSR was required) and so the old artists were canned and the focused changed.  It wasn't about picturing yourself in this world of the DMs creation, it was about following a romantic quest, and picturing yourself as someone else (like an actor).</blockquote>

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