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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What was the final clarification for the timing issues of Divine Challenge and Divine Sanction?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7224844" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>4e was done with 'exception based design,' that means that general rules and precedent don't count for much compared to the exact phrasing of a specific rule. It's annoying, I never cared for it, I've spent a small fraction of the excessive time I've dedicated to commenting on 4e in mocking it.</p><p></p><p>But...</p><p></p><p> Assuming that is a direct quote from the specific rule in question, well: 'Targets' is something that's done before you even get to attack rolls, let alone damage, so if your Challenged/Sanctioned foe <em>targets</em> your ally and takes enough radiant damage to drop, no attack to resolve. </p><p></p><p>It's also a general rule in 4e that when you're under an effect, you know what it does, and Divine Challenge/Sanction has no specifics I recall that contradict that, so presumably the foe knows the score and will attack you - or not attack at all, heck, if he's that low on hps, maybe even surrender - rather than killing himself.</p><p></p><p>Besides, the point of defender features is to take the heat off allies, not to increase your DPR.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Edit: glancing at the paladin in the Compendium, the phrasing above is from the updated Divine Challenge, IIRC, the update removed language about moving towards an enemy being sufficient to keep the challenge active, and was less clear about whether you needed to 'engage' on your turn, or simply at the first opportunity after using Divine Challenge - I've seen DMs run it that you could use Divine Challenge last thing on your turn and wait until your next turn to engage.</em></p><p><em>The DDI Divine Sanction, OTOH, still says 'attack' rather than 'target,' FWIW.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7224844, member: 996"] 4e was done with 'exception based design,' that means that general rules and precedent don't count for much compared to the exact phrasing of a specific rule. It's annoying, I never cared for it, I've spent a small fraction of the excessive time I've dedicated to commenting on 4e in mocking it. But... Assuming that is a direct quote from the specific rule in question, well: 'Targets' is something that's done before you even get to attack rolls, let alone damage, so if your Challenged/Sanctioned foe [i]targets[/i] your ally and takes enough radiant damage to drop, no attack to resolve. It's also a general rule in 4e that when you're under an effect, you know what it does, and Divine Challenge/Sanction has no specifics I recall that contradict that, so presumably the foe knows the score and will attack you - or not attack at all, heck, if he's that low on hps, maybe even surrender - rather than killing himself. Besides, the point of defender features is to take the heat off allies, not to increase your DPR. [i]Edit: glancing at the paladin in the Compendium, the phrasing above is from the updated Divine Challenge, IIRC, the update removed language about moving towards an enemy being sufficient to keep the challenge active, and was less clear about whether you needed to 'engage' on your turn, or simply at the first opportunity after using Divine Challenge - I've seen DMs run it that you could use Divine Challenge last thing on your turn and wait until your next turn to engage. The DDI Divine Sanction, OTOH, still says 'attack' rather than 'target,' FWIW.[/i] [/QUOTE]
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What was the final clarification for the timing issues of Divine Challenge and Divine Sanction?
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