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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 8461710" data-attributes="member: 2209">I would disagree. Area of effects doing d6 per 2 levels on a save are still more than comparable level fighter martials could dish out in a round. Magic Missiles auto hitting for the same amount could often be thrown a lot. Spells like Web and Wall of Ice were very effective at battlefield control. Summon Monster spells were an option that did not interact with saves. There were lots of core options for high level bad guy wizards to effectively throw at PCs. Save or Die/Save or Suck was not the only way for NPC wizards to go.In 3e these save or suck spells hit high level characters and monsters frequently and were often one shot combat ending for the target.In 3e this was a big issue for both PCs and monsters.</blockquote>