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<blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8464648" data-attributes="member: 84112">except that ignores the above part about skipping HP...yes at low level 1 lucky crit can kill your fighter, also 1 failed save... as you level your HP goes up and 1 lucky crit is UNLIKELY to kill your fighter, and 1 low roll on a save is equally unlikely...You took out the part where it was not low level she was talking about... SHe had 0 problem with hold person maybe ending a fight at 2nd level... but when it still could at 13th and was still a 2nd level spell it was BS... except even low level pre3e SoS spells (like tasha laugh even before hold, or sleep) YOU GOT BETTER AT RESSITING THEM, and so did the monsters.2e wizards could not reliable say &quot;I bet this monster has a low will save, tasha laugh/hold person,&quot; and end a fight at 7th or 8th level... let alone 12th or 13th... a 3e one could.that whole &quot;the caster had no say in the DC was a feature... it was the intent, not a bug or an opps to be fixxed. Saves where the resisting to major battle ending effects pre 3e... in 3e (and a bit in 5e) they are NOT any more.Yes and 3e (and 5e after, and pathfinder) all took the physical toughness from the fighter... no more could they just shurg off effects...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HammerMan, post: 8464648, member: 84112"] except that ignores the above part about skipping HP... yes at low level 1 lucky crit can kill your fighter, also 1 failed save... as you level your HP goes up and 1 lucky crit is UNLIKELY to kill your fighter, and 1 low roll on a save is equally unlikely... You took out the part where it was not low level she was talking about... SHe had 0 problem with hold person maybe ending a fight at 2nd level... but when it still could at 13th and was still a 2nd level spell it was BS... except even low level pre3e SoS spells (like tasha laugh even before hold, or sleep) YOU GOT BETTER AT RESSITING THEM, and so did the monsters. 2e wizards could not reliable say "I bet this monster has a low will save, tasha laugh/hold person," and end a fight at 7th or 8th level... let alone 12th or 13th... a 3e one could. that whole "the caster had no say in the DC was a feature... it was the intent, not a bug or an opps to be fixxed. Saves where the resisting to major battle ending effects pre 3e... in 3e (and a bit in 5e) they are NOT any more. Yes and 3e (and 5e after, and pathfinder) all took the physical toughness from the fighter... no more could they just shurg off effects... [/QUOTE]

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