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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tankschmidt" data-source="post: 4120758" data-attributes="member: 35915">Right off the bat, I want to say that I don't currently play 2nd edition AD&D, and it was never my D&D of choice, but some of the comments above need to be addressed.Cute response, but in practice, THAC0 works out pretty much the same as BAB.  Don't get me wrong, BAB is more elegant and is easier for beginners to grasp, but THAC0 alone is no reason to condemn a gaming system.That was kind of the point.  You might have only gotten one spell as a 1st level wizard, but it was a pretty good spell.  With these new editions, there's really not a lot of difference between spells and "TOB/4E powers" (I don't know what the actual term is - stances?) that everyone else gets in combat.That's definitely a taste issue.  Some people (most on these boards, I assume) like a unified system, and some people find it too bland.  Personally, I like rolling a d6 for surprise, a d6 for initiative, and a d6 to spot secret doors.  I also like it when a DM asks you to roll a d10 but doesn't tell you why.  Then you know you're in trouble.You won't get an argument from me here.  Kits added nothing but power creep.They did fracture the market, but they don't make 2nd edition any less of a system.These rules lead to frequent arguments among players of older editions.  Some like 'em, and some don't.  If you don't like level limits, a 10-15% experience penalty for demihumans works just fine.I'll admit that ascending ACs are easier for beginners to grasp, but like THAC0 vs. BAB it's really not a big deal.Actually, there are five saves.  The nice thing about them is that they don't depend ability scores.  Even at low levels, bless, prayer, and chant are worth much more than a little healing. I thought we were talking about what was wrong with 2nd edition! I agree that there was way too much treasure in printed modules.  In fact, if the original poster wants a good point for his bullet list, 2nd edition AD&D modules were for the most part really bad and extremely railroady.  When 3rd edition came out, and they were claiming to go "back to the dungeon," I was pretty excited.I thought they were 10 seconds?  I might be remembering wrong.In my experience, multiclassed characters were generally weaker than single-classed.  They took twice as long to gain levels and generally had fewer hit points.Um... run?  The best monsters are the ones you are afraid of - or at least you are afraid to go toe-to-toe with.You'll get no argument from me on this one.  There's always been way too much power-creep through high stats.These were intended to discourage multi-classing and preserve the archetypes of the game.    2nd edition players didn't have to suffer through endless multiclassing and "builds." The game was better for not having fighter4/bard1/demon sorcerer6/master of chains 12 or what have you.   Mechanical characterization, yes.  Although I have no love for kits/prestige classes, and I've always seen feats as a list of 1,000 things your character cannot do.I can't comment; psionics don't exist in my campaigns.  A cool piece of flavor and a great reason for a high-level adventure.We definitely played with death at -10 hp.  It must have been an optional rule in the DMG.  One of the things I disagree with the 4E designers with is death.  They seem to think that death is a problem with the game instead of part of the game.Some might say that there too many of these rules in AD&D.  It's a matter of taste.Percentage-based thief skills have been a pain since Greyhawk.  The d20 system actually works quite well for them, although I'd prefer some good d6 rolling with situational modifiers.I love different XP tables for each class - it makes balance so much easier.  I never understood why they made them unified, except to encourage multiclassing.  Oh man, if your 2nd edition combats are taking half as long as they would in 3E, you are doing something wrong!  First off, drop the weapon speed and casting time effects on initiative posthaste!</blockquote>

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