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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1241302" data-attributes="member: 151">While I respect Scott McCloud, I tend to think of him as something of a idealistic dreamer.  That said, I think there are loads of problems with holding comics to the same standard as straight literature.  For one, it's unfair to do so.  How can one hold Brian Michael Bendis' Torso to the same standard as Claremont and Byrne's Dark Phoenix Saga?  Which is better: James Kochalka's Little Mister Man, Jeff Smith's Bone, Wolfman and Perez's Teen Titans: Judas Contract, Gruenwald and Starlin's Warlock, Moebius' Blueberry or Dave Sims' Cerebus: Church and State?   A big part of the problem is that we neither have a standard by which to judge, and no established form of criticism, something that every other medium has in spades.  The only existing legitimate critical body that exists for comics is the Comics Journal, a biased and fairly flawed magazine that often tries to distance itself from it's own medium as much as possible.  This problem is made worse by the fact that comics are rarely the product of one person, so it becomes more difficult to review and judge.  Was the comic's failures those of Warren Ellis, or Frank Quitely?  That's assuming you can even make those distinctions.  In the Lee/Kirby days, Lee would give a base idea, Kirby would plot and draw the issue with suggestions for dialogue or concept, and then Lee would create the actual dialogue.  How do you separate the contributions for critical review?  Lee would often rewrite whole sections of dialogue, sometimes in defiance of Kirby's original idea, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.  Kirby did similar things, vis a vis the Silver Surfer.  And since they were working on a time schedule, there was no way for Lee to commision new pieces without the surfer...he was stuck with him.    Which is not to say that I don't understand what stevelabny is saying about the readership forgetting...I'm just not sure that it holds true, anymore.  Kids aren't reading comics anymore.  Readership is down, distribution is a mess and precious few titles are of a sort that I would approve for my kids to read until they're considerably older...and since they're so expensive, few kids can afford them, regardless.  Therefore, a vicous circle emerges: kids can't afford to buy comics, so they don't read them.  The core market of adults that comics are currently catering to create the sort of environment which perpetuates the situation.  The few exceptions to this rule are, ironically, comics based on the animated versions of the comics, such as Batman Adventures.  That's why the ultimate line has proven to be such a success.  It's the Marvel universe, without all the clutter.  Imagine a new reader trying to jump in to Spiderman during the 'spider-clone' nonsense.  Free comics day is certainly a turn in the right direction, but I don't think my kids will ever enjoy comics the way that I did/do...and that's a shame.</blockquote>

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