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<blockquote data-quote="stevelabny" data-source="post: 1242386" data-attributes="member: 9298"><p>Youre looking at the lack on continuity AFTER the fact and deeming it impossible. There would have been NOTHING difficult about it if it was done from the beginning, or if it was done after "Crisis" or "Zero Hour" or the still-to-come Marvel mega-crossover of the same type. </p><p>I cant speak for the Golden Age. Haven't really read anything more than the original stories of supes and bats. I dont know how well Golden Age continuity was kept, so I'll jump straight to the sixties and the Silver Age.</p><p>Marvel had something very close to perfect continuity (since most were written by the same guy) , even if the characters werent aging in real-time, you could still tell they were slowly maturing and getting older. DC on the other hand already had its hands full trying to explain why some golden age characters were completely different people and others were the same but with changing personalities, so they invented Earth Two.</p><p>This was the first sign that even lowly comic editors had realized that "the jig was up" comic fanboys were apparently gonna stick around a little longer than previously expected, comic newbies were a little bit more intelligent than expected, and there was clearly a call for things to MAKE SENSE even if the stories were "JUST ABOUT" stupid superheroes</p><p>By the time comics got to the 1980s, both universes were fraying.</p><p>Marvel retconned a few origins and just kindve ignored their problems.</p><p>DC, carrying the extra 20 years and Earth 2 baggage opted for something more severe. Crisis. This was supposed to completely remove all continuity problems BUT in a complete WTF moment, they rebooted some titles but NOT all of them. Some books seemingly started over, some seemingly wiped their past clean but continued normally, some just kep going as if nothing changed at all. </p><p>How they thought Crisis would be a good idea WITHOUT every editor and writer onboard,i dont know. </p><p>But this failure led to more time-spanning mini-series trying to fix continuity until they got to Zero Hour which actually made a strict 10 year time frame for the DC Universe. From the origins until Zero Hour was ONLY TEN YEARS. All of the original characters are 10 years older, all the rest have aged depending on where their first appearance was in the new official timeline. and the legion of super-heroes future timeline was completely wiped out as a side-effect. oh well.</p><p>Since Zero Hour, wonky aging has continued. some characters age, some characters dont, and christmas happens at least 4 times a year.</p><p>Marvel can't make up its mind how to deal with the porblem. They know individual ret-cons annoy people, but they see how Crisis and Zero Hour failed and are afraid of that route too. So they introduce the ultimate line as a pseudo-solution and try to please everyone.</p><p></p><p>So, its CLEAR that DC and Marvel both admit that there is a problem.If they would have planned this out logically in the BEGINNING this problem wouldnt exist. If they wouldve "fixed" the problem and then stuck by their fix, it would have worked. </p><p></p><p>Heres how I would do it....</p><p>Why is Earth so importnat in the universe? Why are there so many super-powered beings? Why has the timeline been all screwed? </p><p>Spend a year or two...drop some hints, make some prophecies, show off SOMEONE wondering why nightwing had aged so much more than other dc characters or how kitty pryde got old enough to do "adult" things (like sleep with pete wisdom) but somehow reverted back to 16. (making pete wisdom what exactly?) Whether its a robot questioning his logic circuits or dr.strange feeling the ripple of deja vu, or a brand new character with "the sight" doesnt matter... start going out of your way to point out the inconsitencies.</p><p></p><p>Then bring the crossover into play. Simply put... the mainstream Marvel or DC timeline has been tweaked by a time-guy (pre-existing hero or villain preferably)</p><p>so that these people, with these powers would wind up HERE AND NOW.</p><p>it doesnt have to be any more convoluted than that. The more ridiculous your timeline is (hawkman, i'm looking at you) the more important the role you play.</p><p>All of a sudden we know WHY these people have been so messed up.</p><p>At the end , the time-guy says his work is done, and tells the heroes that time will return to normal.</p><p></p><p>Now we go behind the scenes to the editors. they have to decide how this is going to work. Does EVERYONE age naturally. Do only some people age? These people ARE super-powered. You can easily say that any/all of them age slower or not at all. The problem is with the all to human supporting casts. So I wouldnt slow all the heroes aging and have them watch their friends get old and die. But i would do it in certain circumstances (Captain America for one)</p><p></p><p>Then you hire a "continuity editor". His job is to read every comic the company releases and keep a database of every characters whereabouts and to make sure the timeline is running smoothly. No more unexplained "6 month jumps" in one title unless theyve fallen 6 months behind the others. Have a longer or shorter story-arc than usual? no problem. just work it out with the continuity editor first.</p><p></p><p>You ask how many tv shows have to deal with continuity this long...and again I point out the obvious answer DAYTIME SOAP OPERAS. And they keep themselves fresh and exciting by letting go of characters when they need to. Holding on to "young" Peter Parker for because "old" Peter Parker isnt interesting is insulting to the writers. How can you predict how exciting Peter's kids will be? They might be more interesting, they might be less interesting... but you work these things out as they come, and each generation will surely pick their own favorites. Just like on daytime soap operas.</p><p></p><p>It CAN be done, it HAS been done, Marvel and DC are just too fond of the word "iconic" like if it means something to non-comic readers. Non-comic readers dont care if its bruce wayne or peter parker behind the mask or if its someone else. Suprisingly enough all the liscenses that are sold are for the mask, not the man behind it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevelabny, post: 1242386, member: 9298"] Youre looking at the lack on continuity AFTER the fact and deeming it impossible. There would have been NOTHING difficult about it if it was done from the beginning, or if it was done after "Crisis" or "Zero Hour" or the still-to-come Marvel mega-crossover of the same type. I cant speak for the Golden Age. Haven't really read anything more than the original stories of supes and bats. I dont know how well Golden Age continuity was kept, so I'll jump straight to the sixties and the Silver Age. Marvel had something very close to perfect continuity (since most were written by the same guy) , even if the characters werent aging in real-time, you could still tell they were slowly maturing and getting older. DC on the other hand already had its hands full trying to explain why some golden age characters were completely different people and others were the same but with changing personalities, so they invented Earth Two. This was the first sign that even lowly comic editors had realized that "the jig was up" comic fanboys were apparently gonna stick around a little longer than previously expected, comic newbies were a little bit more intelligent than expected, and there was clearly a call for things to MAKE SENSE even if the stories were "JUST ABOUT" stupid superheroes By the time comics got to the 1980s, both universes were fraying. Marvel retconned a few origins and just kindve ignored their problems. DC, carrying the extra 20 years and Earth 2 baggage opted for something more severe. Crisis. This was supposed to completely remove all continuity problems BUT in a complete WTF moment, they rebooted some titles but NOT all of them. Some books seemingly started over, some seemingly wiped their past clean but continued normally, some just kep going as if nothing changed at all. How they thought Crisis would be a good idea WITHOUT every editor and writer onboard,i dont know. But this failure led to more time-spanning mini-series trying to fix continuity until they got to Zero Hour which actually made a strict 10 year time frame for the DC Universe. From the origins until Zero Hour was ONLY TEN YEARS. All of the original characters are 10 years older, all the rest have aged depending on where their first appearance was in the new official timeline. and the legion of super-heroes future timeline was completely wiped out as a side-effect. oh well. Since Zero Hour, wonky aging has continued. some characters age, some characters dont, and christmas happens at least 4 times a year. Marvel can't make up its mind how to deal with the porblem. They know individual ret-cons annoy people, but they see how Crisis and Zero Hour failed and are afraid of that route too. So they introduce the ultimate line as a pseudo-solution and try to please everyone. So, its CLEAR that DC and Marvel both admit that there is a problem.If they would have planned this out logically in the BEGINNING this problem wouldnt exist. If they wouldve "fixed" the problem and then stuck by their fix, it would have worked. Heres how I would do it.... Why is Earth so importnat in the universe? Why are there so many super-powered beings? Why has the timeline been all screwed? Spend a year or two...drop some hints, make some prophecies, show off SOMEONE wondering why nightwing had aged so much more than other dc characters or how kitty pryde got old enough to do "adult" things (like sleep with pete wisdom) but somehow reverted back to 16. (making pete wisdom what exactly?) Whether its a robot questioning his logic circuits or dr.strange feeling the ripple of deja vu, or a brand new character with "the sight" doesnt matter... start going out of your way to point out the inconsitencies. Then bring the crossover into play. Simply put... the mainstream Marvel or DC timeline has been tweaked by a time-guy (pre-existing hero or villain preferably) so that these people, with these powers would wind up HERE AND NOW. it doesnt have to be any more convoluted than that. The more ridiculous your timeline is (hawkman, i'm looking at you) the more important the role you play. All of a sudden we know WHY these people have been so messed up. At the end , the time-guy says his work is done, and tells the heroes that time will return to normal. Now we go behind the scenes to the editors. they have to decide how this is going to work. Does EVERYONE age naturally. Do only some people age? These people ARE super-powered. You can easily say that any/all of them age slower or not at all. The problem is with the all to human supporting casts. So I wouldnt slow all the heroes aging and have them watch their friends get old and die. But i would do it in certain circumstances (Captain America for one) Then you hire a "continuity editor". His job is to read every comic the company releases and keep a database of every characters whereabouts and to make sure the timeline is running smoothly. No more unexplained "6 month jumps" in one title unless theyve fallen 6 months behind the others. Have a longer or shorter story-arc than usual? no problem. just work it out with the continuity editor first. You ask how many tv shows have to deal with continuity this long...and again I point out the obvious answer DAYTIME SOAP OPERAS. And they keep themselves fresh and exciting by letting go of characters when they need to. Holding on to "young" Peter Parker for because "old" Peter Parker isnt interesting is insulting to the writers. How can you predict how exciting Peter's kids will be? They might be more interesting, they might be less interesting... but you work these things out as they come, and each generation will surely pick their own favorites. Just like on daytime soap operas. It CAN be done, it HAS been done, Marvel and DC are just too fond of the word "iconic" like if it means something to non-comic readers. Non-comic readers dont care if its bruce wayne or peter parker behind the mask or if its someone else. Suprisingly enough all the liscenses that are sold are for the mask, not the man behind it. [/QUOTE]
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