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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 6272844" data-attributes="member: 23935">Here's how I see the examples.1. Cloud castleThe Ranger has the World Pillar Mountain talent letting him know the location of a magic mountain said to climb so high it touches the realm of the cloud giants; they need to take a longer treacherous journey (than the Wizard's mass fly spell), but the advantage is the BBEG won't necessarily see them coming. (player resources affecting world)The Paladin can consult his Celestial Allies who grant him and his companions the use of pegasi or celestial griffons if he is in good standing with his faith; if his faith is shaken he may need to perform an act of atonement or undertake a quest first. (use of in-game resources -- faction/organisations)The Rogue happens to have the Get In Anywhere talent and it's up to the player to come up with a story about how she managed to get into the cloud castle... However first the rogue will have to devise some means of getting a really long rope down to her companions, or otherwise help them find some means of getting up to the castle. (mythic -- the Rogue can get in anywhere without requiring in-game resources to accomplish the task so long as an entertaining story can be delivered)The Fighter has the Issue Epic Challenge challenge, which he can use to goad the BBEG to negotiate a mutually agreed location for a final violent confrontation. Even if the BBEG sends a lieutenant, all the fighter and companions need to do now is defeat the lieutenant and question him/her for information on how to enter the cloud castle. (mythic -- the Fighter can issue a challenge heard and accepted by his target without question or consideration)2. Other Plane of ExistenceThe Ranger knows how to identify the Faerie Byways from natural signs and the general laws one must observe to reach the Plane of Faerie. There will be challenges along the way, however, but these challenges may also offer insights and tricks (true to fey lore) that help the heroes later on. (this could be any one of the three.  If the faerie byways are part of the original world then it is using in-game environment and resources.  If the player is adding the by-ways then it is player action and/or mythic depending on how the action is resolved) The Paladin's steed at high-level has gained the planeswalking ability, so getting into Faerie is as easy as going for a quick ride; he can take one companion with him but that's no more, and he won't be able to use his horse to leave Faerie for 24 hours...hopefully they don't need to travel to a fey realm where time is distorted! (in-game resources)The Rogue has the In Hot Water talent which lets her be taken by an extra planar creature who is angry with her or who wants her for some reason. Hopefully she can negotiate with her fey abductors long enough for the rest of her companions to arrive in Faerie, and there may be a price to her freedom, but at least she got to Faerie free of charge! (player affecting world)The Fighter might have the Champion of the Seldarine reputation reward for a service he performed for the Elf Queen that won her favor; calling on a favor, he makes a Reputation check to determine whether the Elf Queen helps him for free or if there's a price attached to her aid (and how steep it will be). Other classes could have this reward too, true, but the fighter would get bonus reputation rewards at high level. (either in-game resources if favour part of backstory/earned during play or player affecting world)3. Surviving UnderwaterThe high-level Ranger has the Survive Anywhere talent so this is a cakewalk for him, and the player comes up with the explanation of using a oxygen-emitting moss as a form of rebreather. The GM smiles, that's cool. (mythic)The Paladin draws on his Sustained by Faith talent which will let him get by without air, food, or water, but not forever and afterward he will be fatigued. (mythic)The Rogue uses her Just the Tool for the Job talent to pull out a hat of underwater breathing, the player nervously asking the GM who she stole it from. The GM calmly informs her there may be a high-level Elementalist who is rather put out with her now, and before the rogue can call upon the talent again she will need to resolve the situation with the Elementalist. Great. But she is underwater. (player affecting world)The Fighter draws on two talents to keep up with his companions, Epic Endurance and Delay Affliction. The first lets him achieve feats of free diving at a level that surpasses mortal limits, while the second lets him avoid having the pay the price if he starts drowning until after the fight...victory could cost the fighter his life, but it's better to die in battle. (mythic) Don't get me wrong; all three options are viable but they all have downsides.The only option traditionally presented in D&D is in-game resources.  The downside of this one is the game mechanics can undercut it as a factor in emergent play.  That's what I found happening in 3.X.  The codification of the Leadership feat cut at henchfolk and the default assumptions around magic item creation, cost, and availability undercut utility items as resources.  Those game mechanics and assumptions were baked into 3.X for a reason though -- they were part of an attempt to curb some types of gaming excess and deliver a more consistent and fun experience at more tables.Mythic makes some players of fighter-types uncomfortable as the PCs feel more super-powered than Conan-esque.  It introduces mechanisms that the scenario designer needs to take into account because the attributes bypass obstacle placement by their very nature.  D&D modules are already notorious for designers hand-waving magical obstacle clearance (the following list of spells don't function here because *mumble mumble*).Player action developing the narrative or world-shaping outside the character works very well in some games like Strands of Fate or Leverage but I find it jarring and out of place for the experience I seek as a D&D player.</blockquote>

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