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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6273318" data-attributes="member: 20323">Phew, this was a while ago...the campaign ran from 1-13...the Hades quest was in the late middle and the dual-classed fighter/wizard had cone of cold (a 5th level spell IIRC)...so maybe 9th or 10th level.Part of Planescape and 2e was that there were no stats for gods and it was obvious to the PCs that in a Pc-vs-god fight they'd lose. It was implicit in the setting and the system. But even more than that the adventure gave them ways to interact with the environment and denizens of Hades realm, even deceive Hades, without being plot coupons. There was never any "well you cannot teleport there because there's Anti-magic" or some such spell arms escalation like you were alluding to.Ah, I see. Well, there is a middle ground here, and IME D&D home games play in that middle ground - that the DM will abstract tasks based on their story relevance has been the standard at every table I've sat at. For example, the version of Scry that I postulated. You can run thru the same procedure just in a much more accelerated "cleaner" way. I'll explain by way of example...The wizard player wants to find a criminal known only as Smiling Quenz the party can pump for information about the BBEG. This is a completely player generated idea with no writeup in the adventure - it is a strategy that can succeed or failure without grinding the adventure to a halt. Deciding to cast the spell and getting the party to agree takes as long as it would normally.First, the wizard explains he can scry on Smiling Quenz but needs his given name & a component connected to the criminal. The rogue PC does some digging with an Streetwise check and a bit of bribery and learns that Smiling Quenz's given name is actually Quentin Eugene, which she shares with the rest of the party with a snicker. This doesn't take more than 2 minutes real-time.Second, the fighter chats up some of the alewenches at the tavern, drawing on a reputation talent, and it is revealed the fighter saved an alewench's brother on the field of battle back in the day. In gratitude the alewench offers a free tankard of their best, but instead the fighter asks if she would give him whatever she won beating Smiling Quenz at dice (a fact that came up during play). The talent lets the fighter recall this favor, and she gives it to him - it's none other than Smiling Quenz's favorite gold ring. The fighter shows it to the wizard who agrees that will do nicely. This doesn't take more than 2 minutes real-time.Third, the wizard casts Scry and begins watching Quentin Eugene beating up a snitch in a hideout, hoping to learn some clue about where this hideout is. Now if this was central to the adventure the DM wouldn't give away the location necessarily, and would instead introduce another step...maybe the snitch lets something slip about burying the treasurer at Shady Grove. But in this case, since it's not central to the adventure, the DM spills the beans right away, revealing where the hideout is. This doesn't take more than 2 minutes.So it's not just a question of abstraction but also how the DM interprets the rules and how difficult the DM makes things. I don't see why D&D players would object to handling Scry like that?</blockquote>

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