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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6311179" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Okay, let's think about this.Currently, when using a polygraph ("lie detector"), the subject is asked a few questions to establish "baseline".  They are told to answer "yes" to each question, and are then asked questions where yes and no answers alternate.  You know, "Is your name John Smith?", "Have you ever been to Las Vegas?", "Have you ever climbed Mount Everest?", etc.Discern Lies allows a Save.  One.  You can either make the Save and have your lies undectable, which will be revealed when you answer "yes" to "Does two plus two equal five?", or you can fail the Save, and be caught in the crime.  Attempting to conceal the truth from the church/court is a guilty plea.  And you can't cleverly evade yes or no questions, except by refusing to answer them with a yes or no.  Presume that the Clerics using this spell have the Wisdom to know what they're doing.And who cares if the thief/assassin had Mind Blank up when they committed the crime?  If they keep it up when questioned, the jig is up.  So we have to cast Scrying a few times until the person isn't Mind Blanked and fails a Save.  If the crime is big enough money, then there's big money in finding the criminal.  Also, Discern Location works on objects as well, so valuable stolen goods can be located, since they can't Mind Blank.Regarding social strata: An established leadership, with wealth and power, could indeed maintain that power for a time.  Eventually their hired cadre of casters would wonder why they're taking orders from the snob, instead of simply taking his money, lands and estates.Question though:  Could the blue bloods, as a distinct class, rise up in the first place, when the real power (magic) can come to people outside their self appointed elite?  And may or may not occur within their group?Yes, Arcane magic can be studied (Wizard), but the user's ability is capped by their casting stat, and that isn't something that honors social status.  And Sorcerers are going to spring up regardless of education.Clerical magic can also be studied, but it's granted at the whim of the gods, and they may or may not care for any given acolyte's devotion.  In fact, the more dedicated they are to their social class, the less likely the gods are of seeing them as being dedicated to their faith.And what part of "inherited titles" can survive in a world where the death of a noble can be reversed, effectively undoing the inheritance?I suspect that the major powers of the world would end up being religiously based.  Churches are the only magical brotherhoods that are automatically "organized".  Clerics of a Good deity could and would be trusted, simply because if they stray from that alignment, their power goes away.If there are any secular rulers, they'd have to be blessed by the recognized church(s).  Think the darkest period of the Dark Ages, when opposing the church was simply not done.Arcane casters, if they're permitted to exist, would be organized or at least licensed by the church, with those casters found to be "not of Good character" finding themselves with little support, and no license.</blockquote>

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