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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2651665" data-attributes="member: 2011">It's not all assumptions as you state.&quot;Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally crawl over each other and their prey when moving or attacking.&quot;&quot;A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall.&quot;Since Grease does not affect creatures directly, it affects the surface creatures are on, and since swarms &quot;crawl over each other&quot;, my interpretation is just as much RAW as yours.Grease does not make a surface frictionless, it makes it slick. Since we have NO rules on what this means for creatures on top of creatures on top of creatures, your interpretation is just as much of an assumption as mine is.Mine just happens to match common sense and game designer intent more than yours. The game designers did not want swarms to be heavily affected by effects that do not affect the entire swarm.&quot;A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate)&quot;&quot;immune to weapon damage&quot;&quot;cannot be tripped&quot;&quot;cannot be grappled&quot;&quot;cannot be bullrushed&quot;RAW more closesly matches my interpretation. The onus is on you to illustrate that a swarm is not immune to a spell that does not directly affect creatures and does not directly touch the entire swarm.And, let's take an example out of a game.A PC is covered in Centipedes.His ally PC casts Grease.Suddenly, the thousands of Centipedes that are swarming all over that PC, are in his hair, his clothes, etc., all &quot;fall down&quot; because some of the Centipedes on the floor around him are suddenly on a slick surface.That is blatantly obsurd and nonsensical.This is a case of DM adjudication as opposed to straight RAW. Personally, I want my DM to make a reasonable one.Now, I can understand a DM making a ruling that the Grease slows up movement or something. But beyond that, it is taking one RAW interpretation to a nonsensical extreme.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2651665, member: 2011"] It's not all assumptions as you state. "Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally [b]crawl over each other[/b] and their prey when moving or attacking." "A grease spell [b]covers a solid surface[/b] with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature [b]in the area[/b] when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall." Since Grease does not affect creatures directly, it affects the surface creatures are on, and since swarms "crawl over each other", my interpretation is just as much RAW as yours. Grease does not make a surface frictionless, it makes it slick. Since we have NO rules on what this means for creatures on top of creatures on top of creatures, your interpretation is just as much of an assumption as mine is. Mine just happens to match common sense and game designer intent more than yours. The game designers did not want swarms to be heavily affected by effects that do not affect the entire swarm. "A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate)" "immune to weapon damage" "cannot be tripped" "cannot be grappled" "cannot be bullrushed" RAW more closesly matches my interpretation. The onus is on you to illustrate that a swarm is not immune to a spell that does not directly affect creatures and does not directly touch the entire swarm. And, let's take an example out of a game. A PC is covered in Centipedes. His ally PC casts Grease. Suddenly, the thousands of Centipedes that are swarming all over that PC, are in his hair, his clothes, etc., all "fall down" because some of the Centipedes on the floor around him are suddenly on a slick surface. That is blatantly obsurd and nonsensical. This is a case of DM adjudication as opposed to straight RAW. Personally, I want my DM to make a reasonable one. Now, I can understand a DM making a ruling that the Grease slows up movement or something. But beyond that, it is taking one RAW interpretation to a nonsensical extreme. [/QUOTE]

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