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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2652446" data-attributes="member: 2011">It is solid ground.1) MM page 237, Vulnerabilities of Swarms:“A lit torch …“A weapon with a special ability such as flaming or frost …“A lit lantern …2) MM page 237 – 240, Bat, Rat and Spider swarms are not immune to weapon damage.You can affect swarms with certain types of melee and missile attacks.Agreed. It merely implies it with no Trip, no Grapple, no Bullrush, and the fact that creatures in a swarm crawl over themselves. Not black and white, but a dark shade of gray.Again, agreed.I think based on what a swarm is, it should be relatively unaffected by certain effects of certain spells. I think the designers were not able to list all of those effects, so they did what was reasonable (not affected by limited creature spells).Not with a Grease spell. Nowhere does it state that grease gets on the creatures touching the surface or object. For all we know, the grease on the object or surface stays put since that is the area of effect, not the creature.Greasing up even a single cat is an assumption on your part not supported by RAW.The quote from the PHB (page 311) is "Lying on the ground".An important distinction.I realize that the DMG states "The creature is on the ground", but in the same section, it also talks about standing back up.I doubt you will attempt to indicate that prone creatures are actually standing.So, a prone swarm by defintion is not standing and based on size, cannot really reach the creature it is supposed to be swarming (except the boot leather of the creature in the case of fine).Prone is not a mental condition or off balance or any such thing. It is falling off your feet.Either the entire swarm is prone, or it is not.Does it REALLY make sense to you that the entire swarm (all 1500 centipedes) would be prone if the surface under some of the swarm gets slippery?Based on your words here, I guess it is hard to justify, even though you tried to squirm out of it.How about the Flaming arrow? According to RAW, the flame portion of it affects all swarms and even the damage portion of it can affect Bats, Rats, or Spiders. In fact, with a powerful enough arrow, you could wipe out an entire Bat, Rat, or Spider swarm. It only takes 26 points of damage for most single Bat or Rat swarms and only 9 points for the Spider swarm.But others can make a melee attack against them and damage them. Not irrelevant.I was not saying the pro-Grease position was nonsensical. I was saying that Prone swarms are nonsensical based on what a swarm is (even if half of them fall on their backsides, the other half is still standing). Please don't state that I have said things that I have not.</blockquote>

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