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Message: <blockquote data-quote="John Morrow" data-source="post: 2151392" data-attributes="member: 27012">Sorry.  Not trying to goad you into a response.  I was just curious if it helped you make more sense of what you were feeling, since the research specifically deals with feelings of disgust and their role in moral assessments.Princess Bride happens to be one of many people's all time favorite movies, which is why I used it as an example (by the way, I've seen a live stage show with Mandy Patinkin and he ended his show with the Inigo line, so that character was certainly memorable).  What I'm trying to get to here is (A) whether the issue is really whether or not the person killed is helpless and (B) your sense of what a hero is.Whether a victims sense of justice is impartial or not (the Stargate SG-1 and Babylon 5 episodes that I mention in another thread also address the victim's sense of justice) really has no bearing on an objective assessment of whether the victims actions are Evil or not, does it?  Is a person who has been personally wronged more justified in doing Evil things than a person who has not personally been wronged?  I'm not asking if Inigo's actions were wrong or if he was justifying them to himself.  I'm asking if they were Evil as an objective alignment assessment.  And let's not forget that the audience was not a victim of the Count's Evil yet they generally cheer his death when it happens.Further, I've pointed out several cases where helpless people are killed.  Most government executions fall into this category and it's what Inigo does to the Count.  Is the problem really the idea of killing a helpless villain or is the problem either (A) you didn't think the villain's were so bad that they deserved a death sentence, (B) that you didn't feel that the PCs had the moral authority to play judge, jury, and executioner on the spot, or (C) the brutality and cold efficiency of the act?  If killing a helpless villain is always Evil, then all executions of prisoners, even with a trial and conviction, are not simply Neutral but Evil.  Is that the perspective you want to enforce in your setting?As for what a hero is, there are plenty of movies (including The Princess Bride) where the "heroes" do questionable things that are not always Good, from Inigo and James Bond to Dirty Harry and the Death Wish movies.  I'm curious about how tightly you associate being a hero with being Good and if you can accept a more Neutral hero like Inigo who does things you think are wrong, can you accept PCs that do the same sorts of things?  Do you enjoy action movies with gray heroes?  If so, can you run games with gray hero PCs?  If not, why not?Fair enough.  I'm not trying to put you on trial.  I'm trying to understand (and help you understand) your perspective.  Like I said, I also have a selfish motive for this.  I'm noticing some rough edges in the way I'm handling alignment in my game.  I plan on revising the setting at some point and this thread has actually been quite helpful at sorting some of my problems out.Just to make it perfectly clear (I know this wasn't addressed to me), I don't think you are a bad GM.  The fact that you sorted out the problem without anyone leaving but still want to make sure it doesn't happen again (it's still on your mind) suggests that you are a pretty good GM.I think it's an interesting question that comes back to the issue of empathizing with the bad guys.  If you can't answer it, though, then you can't answer it.</blockquote>

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