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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EvilDwarf" data-source="post: 3322982" data-attributes="member: 46843">3E is killing usI'm lucky enough to still be playing with the same core group that I played with in college--and I'm talking about since the beginning.  I still remember that afternoon, running out of the Hobby Shop with the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook (1E), my friend Scott and me drooling over how everything had been revised, expanded, etc.  3E (and 3.5), though, has just about killed our gaming.  We're die-hard D&Der's, so Talisman and Warhammer are just momentary distractions.  We want D&D.  But we're just not up to 3.5 anymore, for reasons that have been posted ad nauseum:  character creation requires software or takes forever; combat lasts forever;  game prep takes forever; the rules are strung across a dozen books (yeah, we could stick with core--but even then, we have gamers since 1E who still can't figure out how to optimize feats or keep track of skill points or stacking bonuses, etc.  And that buying/making your own magic items thingy?  Still leaves a blood-like tang in our mouths).  Our gaming is drying up under the weight of 3E.I would like a 4E that is basic.  I'd like one where you have character customization without the need for optimization (for instance, Monte Cook said himself that D&D is designed to reward those players who master THE SYSTEM).  For instance, instead of having a separate chapter on Feats, feats would be rolled into class, and you might get a choice or three at various levels, with those choices being balanced so you could choose for flavor instead of mastery.  Or, you would choose a kit (and do away with PrC altogether;  requires too much metagaming to plot your course) at start up, and your feats and skills would be largely laid out for you.  (One neat thing my group LIKED about Warhammer was the career system--they said it made it easier to role play because the "class" was a pretty well-defined niche.  4E D&D could do this by setting up something like in the appendix of the PHBII for NPCs.  Instead of choosing a Rogue and then having to master the sytem to optimize your skills and feats, you could choose a Vagabond, or Beggar, or Cat Burglar, etc. with the class abilities/feats/options choices minimized).I'd like a 4E that might not even have a skills system at all that resembles 3E, but might be more like C&C's skills engine.  I'd like a 4E that isn't M:tG-ified:  get rid of the problem with stacking, get rid of feats that are designed as rule exceptions, and so on.  Again, allow customization without the need to master optimization. Etc.So, I guess I'm in support of the "move back to basics" idea and design first for the group that meets once a week for 4 hours and would like to get some adventuring done during that time, and the DM wouldn't have to spend a like amount of time prepping.Sorry if this post sounds like a rant (does this post sound like a duck? Walk like a...oh, never mind).Cheers.</blockquote>

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