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What would you miss about 5E if you were playing AD&D?
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7126473" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Semi-idle thought experiment: if you were playing AD&D as a player (not a DM), what would you miss about 5E? What bits would you think worth keeping or importing?</p><p></p><p>For me, I like the 5E fighter and the number of combat options he has. Some of the 5E fighter actions like Disarm have analogues in AD&D (Complete Fighter's Handbook), but some of them don't. In particular, the way that grappling/shoving works in 5E is pretty beautiful for fighters--a 6th level fighter can turn a fight with an Earth Elemental from a deadly struggle into something approaching simplicity just by leveraging his Athletics training. I would want the game to have Prone as a disadvantageous condition, and a way for a fighter to reliably or semi-reliably exploit it, although I don't necessarily need it to be as trivially easy as it is in 5E. (E.g. Prone gives a -4 to hit and +4 to be hit, and attack rolls/saving throws take place on a 2d10 bell curve instead of d20. Ability contests are run by comparing margins of success on a 3d6 roll; for grappling it's a Strength contest, and weapon proficiency in wrestling gives you a +2 on wrestling contests. That replicates basically the same dynamics as 5E when it comes to tanky fighters wrestling enemies into submission.)</p><p></p><p>I would also miss the a beauty of Sharpshooter and fighters who do tons of damage with arrows; but I'm willing to give that up in the name of a more classic, harder game. D&D as GURPS (complete with lots of Rapid Shots and Vital Shots) is just too easy.</p><p></p><p>I would miss reaction spells like Shield and Absorb Elements; but not enough to want to import them. The AD&D wizard paradigm is "think ahead" (Stoneskin/Ironskin/Contingency), not "react on the fly" (Shield/Absorb Elements). I <em>would</em> sort of miss Counterspell though--it's a nice bit of fiction. I'm not sure how to accomodate Counterspell in the AD&D paradigm.</p><p></p><p>I <em>might</em> miss the saving throw system. I've always been kind of fuzzy on the reasons why rods/staves/wands get treated differently from spells, in the fiction. On the other hand, I'm often also fuzzy on why e.g. getting out of a Forcecage involves a Charisma save, or why exactly a Dexterity saving throw to protect you from Fireball does not cost movement or a reaction or leave you prone (i.e. apparently you're not doing any of the things you'd <em>think</em> you were doing to protect yourself from the Fireball). Both systems have their warts from a logical perspective so it might be a wash.</p><p></p><p>That's all I can really think of that I'd miss. There are things I like about 5E, but aside from fighters, Counterspell, and maybe ability-centric saving throws, I can't think of anything else that I like <em>better</em> in 5E than in AD&D. (I'm fine with THAC0, for example. In some ways it's easier to deal with than ascending AC, especially in large combats.)</p><p></p><p>If you were me, what would YOU be missing?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7126473, member: 6787650"] Semi-idle thought experiment: if you were playing AD&D as a player (not a DM), what would you miss about 5E? What bits would you think worth keeping or importing? For me, I like the 5E fighter and the number of combat options he has. Some of the 5E fighter actions like Disarm have analogues in AD&D (Complete Fighter's Handbook), but some of them don't. In particular, the way that grappling/shoving works in 5E is pretty beautiful for fighters--a 6th level fighter can turn a fight with an Earth Elemental from a deadly struggle into something approaching simplicity just by leveraging his Athletics training. I would want the game to have Prone as a disadvantageous condition, and a way for a fighter to reliably or semi-reliably exploit it, although I don't necessarily need it to be as trivially easy as it is in 5E. (E.g. Prone gives a -4 to hit and +4 to be hit, and attack rolls/saving throws take place on a 2d10 bell curve instead of d20. Ability contests are run by comparing margins of success on a 3d6 roll; for grappling it's a Strength contest, and weapon proficiency in wrestling gives you a +2 on wrestling contests. That replicates basically the same dynamics as 5E when it comes to tanky fighters wrestling enemies into submission.) I would also miss the a beauty of Sharpshooter and fighters who do tons of damage with arrows; but I'm willing to give that up in the name of a more classic, harder game. D&D as GURPS (complete with lots of Rapid Shots and Vital Shots) is just too easy. I would miss reaction spells like Shield and Absorb Elements; but not enough to want to import them. The AD&D wizard paradigm is "think ahead" (Stoneskin/Ironskin/Contingency), not "react on the fly" (Shield/Absorb Elements). I [I]would[/I] sort of miss Counterspell though--it's a nice bit of fiction. I'm not sure how to accomodate Counterspell in the AD&D paradigm. I [I]might[/I] miss the saving throw system. I've always been kind of fuzzy on the reasons why rods/staves/wands get treated differently from spells, in the fiction. On the other hand, I'm often also fuzzy on why e.g. getting out of a Forcecage involves a Charisma save, or why exactly a Dexterity saving throw to protect you from Fireball does not cost movement or a reaction or leave you prone (i.e. apparently you're not doing any of the things you'd [I]think[/I] you were doing to protect yourself from the Fireball). Both systems have their warts from a logical perspective so it might be a wash. That's all I can really think of that I'd miss. There are things I like about 5E, but aside from fighters, Counterspell, and maybe ability-centric saving throws, I can't think of anything else that I like [I]better[/I] in 5E than in AD&D. (I'm fine with THAC0, for example. In some ways it's easier to deal with than ascending AC, especially in large combats.) If you were me, what would YOU be missing? [/QUOTE]
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What would you miss about 5E if you were playing AD&D?
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