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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2925578" data-attributes="member: 2011">Ah. Fair enough. I was focusing on the ring.It's all about synergies. While it is true that not all Rogue attacks are sneak attacks, when a 20th level Rogue can do 45+ points of damage with a single attack (with a simple +5 weapon, not even a Holy Bane etc. one), you can bet that the party will help him to move into position to get all 3, 4, or even 5 (e.g. Improved Two Weapon Fighting) of his full round sneak attacks against a powerful undead. Sure, they might not all hit, but that can be over 225 points of damage against a single opponent (like a powerful Lich) in a single round by a single PC. More if his weapons have other special abilities.It is not a given ability in and of itself that is the problem. It is how it combines with other fairly common abilities.Bane is fairly huge when it is used. Most PCs that have a Bane weapon that I have ever seen have two magic weapons, their Bane one and their non-Bane one. And, most Bane weapons I've seen are anti-undead or anti-evil outsiders. So, they use their other mega weapon until the situation where Bane comes into play and they then use it.And, Bane does about 40+% more damage than any other +1 weapon bonus weapon.This item (regardless of how made) takes away an Immunity. You'll note that the base spell (Grave Strike) only does this for a single round.You are viewing it as enabling a class ability. I view it as taking away a defense. And, a defense that limits one PC out of four of the base four iconic PCs.Using your theory of balance here, a +1 Undead Bane Grave Strike Short Sword would cost 18,310 GP (9155 GP if a PC has Craft Magic Arms and Armor). Not a lot of money for a 19th level PC who should have about 580000 GP. It would be really easy to have an extra one (or two) of these.It would do an average of 48.5 + Str damage. Or, about 150+ damage if all 3 attacks hit (250+ with all 5 hitting, 2 such cheap weapons, and Improved Two Weapon Fighting).So, a normal Bane short sword does about 50+% more damage (3D6+2) than other +1 special abilities short swords (e.g. flaming at 2D6+1). Your +1 Grave Strike weapon can do about 80+% more damage (4D6+1) when a Rogue could afford it (level 5) and up to 490+% more damage (11D6+1) when a Rogue is 19th level.It does not matter that it only works this well for a Rogue. A Rogue is the kind of character who would own this "cheap" item. It does not matter that it only works against undead. That is the time when it would be used.</blockquote>

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