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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DammitVictor" data-source="post: 8323666" data-attributes="member: 6750908">Specialty Priests didn't exist in core AD&D, only Clerics and Druids. Most Specialty Priests were published in setting-specific supplements, and they were not called "Clerics" or "Druids" of their ethos.I haven't looked in a long time. I think the four Elemental Spheres in Dark Sun were a lot bigger than their PHB counterparts.They were classes in the rulebook. Gladiator was a class in the Warrior group, like Fighter but not Fighter. And I wasn't referring to Psionicsts, which were not printed in the Dark Sun boxed set(s), but in Complete Psionics Handbook, which was listed as a requirement to play Dark Sun.I am referring to the Templar, which was a Priest class but not a Cleric; the Gladiator, which was not a Fighter; and the Athasian Bard that replaced the PHB Bard. Which means there were four new classes, because I forgot the Trader which was a Rogue class but not a Thief or Bard.Personally, I agree with making Gladiator a subclass of Fighter and Bard a subclass of Rogue, and Trader... a Background, probably.You are abusing the game's common terminology to render it meaningless.So all of the nonhuman races in Dark Sun were whole new races? That point supports my argument.You'll notice I'm not advocating for banning the Paladin, because we've found an appropriate use for the class-- modeling one of the new classes from the original Dark Sun. I'm also tentatively not even suggesting we ban the Bard, but they either need to be made a divine class and given appropriate restrictions, or have their healing spells removed because even Preservers using arcane magic to heal is just wrong.I'm normally a huge advocate of arcane healing magic, but it's not appropriate for Preserving/Defiling magic. And Clerics on Athas aren't gross.That's one way of framing it. I'd frame it more like we've devalued having a consistent relationship between mechanics and narrative, and grown permissive of allowing the official developers to homogenize settings into bland mush to facilitate vapid cross-compatibility.We don't have to do that kind of thing anymore, but we also don't have to reboot a unique and beloved classic setting if we're only going to make it just like the settings we already have.I think you already said that it's even more drastically different from the standard D&D of our time. I really do feel like I'm supporting making as few changes to the mechanics as necessary to support the narrative, but I'm simply completely intolerant of making any changes to the narrative to preserve the system. I think it's lazy and I think it defeats the purpose of rebooting the setting at all, I think the current D&D development team relies on it far too much, and it's the number one reason I have absolutely zero faith in them to produce anything I want to buy.I'm trying not to be negative, and I'm sorry that I'm mostly failing. I will try to be more helpful while accepting that my vision doesn't match anyone else's here.</blockquote>

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