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(+) What would you want for 5e Dark Sun?
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<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 8333650" data-attributes="member: 6796468"><p>Yes, for the most part. The idea is that the -world- is Desolate. So affected by the Defilers that even the sun, the nearest -star- is affected by the terribly magics that have hit this planet. From the Blue Sun of the Blue Age to the Yellow Sun of the Green Age to the Crimson Sun of the current age.</p><p></p><p>Even the other PLANES have been afflicted by the magics of Athas. To the point that the Water Elemental Plane is almost dry.</p><p></p><p>Monsters and Creatures and Wild Effects? Sure. As long as they continue the narrative that Athas the -planet- has been ravaged by the Sorcerer-Kings rather than "Oh, this one part of the middle east kind of sucks, but the rest of the world is totally different! Like... Squibbles did the map-math back in May to show how big the known world is:</p><p></p><p><img src="https://www.enworld.org/attachments/1620852848614-png.136860/" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>That's everything inside the Ringing Mountains, which surround the known world. Here's the Tyr Region for comparison:</p><p></p><p><img src="https://www.enworld.org/attachments/1620852953023-png.136863/" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>While I know the world is WAY bigger than that tiny square, or slightly larger shuttlecock shape, the further out we go the more the impetus to put in forests and oceans grows.</p><p></p><p>Making 98% of the rest of the world a massive desert largely devoid of life, or with minimal life that is largely inimical to humanoid life, fits the setting by making the Tablelands the last bastion of real -life- on the world. The only place people can reasonably live which is why they accept the rule of the Sorcerer Kings... they just don't have a choice. There's nowhere else to go.</p><p></p><p>Defiling destroys Plants and simple organisms and Atmospheric Water. It only damages and destroys animals and people if you've started the process to become a Dragon which requires SO MUCH DEFILING before you even get there. The Forest would have defiled itself by the way the setting works.</p><p></p><p>Also... Defiling is a power source for Arcane Magic. It's not just "Something that Happens". Someone has to make that choice and use the magic to accomplish something.</p><p></p><p>This all goes back to adding to and expanding the story of the setting, not just changing it.</p><p></p><p>Wanna know how you could make that forest work -within- the setting without having to either change the story or drastically rewrite how magic functions? Skip out on "Defiling" and "Arcane Radiation" and just make it good old fashion regular radiation that stunts the trees and kills people in the area. You don't go into that forest because it's too dangerous and the radiation source is some meteor that landed in the Green Age that is still throwing off massive quantities of deadly radiation that mutates things in the area.</p><p></p><p>Huzzah! Now we've got a radioactive forest, like you wanted, where going there will slowly kill you. Now... what are you gonna do with it? We've established it's a horrible and deadly forest that not even a Sorcerer King dares venture into for fear of mutation and death... So what's it for?</p><p></p><p>A Sea. Is hiding. A giant purple sea. Okay... same question as the Radioactive Forest: Why? What are we using this massive ocean-sized water-hogging land-amoeba for?</p><p></p><p>The Mountains don't really have an explicit purpose, nope. They're largely (no pun intended) just terrain meant to be dealt with. Well, except the Ringing Mountains, which represent the "Edge of the World", essentially.</p><p></p><p>Grasslands, though? Oases? They're places where Druids have tended the world and started healing it. They're millennia of hard work and careful preparation to return life to lands the Defilers destroyed. They require massive patience and the help of epic-level monsters to restore the world to some small measure. Except the Oases that are traps, or the grasslands held by monsters too strong to drive off.</p><p></p><p>People huddle in Tyr and Balic and Raam and other places because there's Water. Wells of it, oases, occasionally lakes. There's irrigation for fields and food that grows and even gardens in the various palaces of the Sorcerer Kings. They're small communities where Green exists and is jealously guarded. The rest of the planet is either dead, desolate, or dangerous, which is why they stay. They don't have a good choice. It's either live in fear or die in the wastelands.</p><p></p><p>If there are other places that are hospitable: Why stay in the Tablelands? Why not escape to a different, safer, greener, or wetter place?</p><p></p><p>And that's... kinda the point I've been driving. The world needs to be a brutal wasteland for the setting to work without the M. Knight Shymalan twist. Oh, one could certainly create other "Tyr Regions" with totally different features and stuff, even around the Silt Sea itself. But the more you add, the more Green in particular, the more it becomes a question of why people don't just leave.</p><p></p><p>You know why most zombie movies involve a single place with a fence or a wall or something else and no one has cell service? Because the story doesn't work if you can leave. If there's help you can call from beyond those zombies to come and do something about it. The isolation is a big part of what makes it work.</p><p></p><p>And it's kind of what makes Dark Sun work, too. The knowledge that the rest of the world is just as bad, or even worse, than the Tyr Region means leaving really isn't an option. Going beyond the Sea of Silt gets you more of the same, so why traverse it if the same Crimson Sun is going to burn down upon you, regardless?</p><p></p><p>For the sake of argument, let's say you create a New Place. This new place is desolate AF and it's within the Ringing Mountains on the other side of the Sea of Silt. There's a handful of cities, there, largely like the ones in the Tyr region, but different. They're ruled by other people and there's no Dragons or Sorcerer Kings there. Defiling magic is punishable by death, and psionics are still the rule of the day.</p><p></p><p>What's happening, there, what story are you telling, that you can't tell in the Tyr region? And how does that story, and the existence of these other "Free Realms", impact the narrative of a desolate world where your only real choice is to live under the oppressive regime of the Sorcerer Kings?</p><p></p><p>Okay. So let's try it with Sorcerer Kings. Let's say there's 8 city-states with only 6 Sorcerer Kings. And somehow they're unknown to the Tyran Sorcerer Kings and in the dark about the Tyran Sorcerer Kings. What story are you telling, there, that you can't tell in the Tyr region?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 8333650, member: 6796468"] Yes, for the most part. The idea is that the -world- is Desolate. So affected by the Defilers that even the sun, the nearest -star- is affected by the terribly magics that have hit this planet. From the Blue Sun of the Blue Age to the Yellow Sun of the Green Age to the Crimson Sun of the current age. Even the other PLANES have been afflicted by the magics of Athas. To the point that the Water Elemental Plane is almost dry. Monsters and Creatures and Wild Effects? Sure. As long as they continue the narrative that Athas the -planet- has been ravaged by the Sorcerer-Kings rather than "Oh, this one part of the middle east kind of sucks, but the rest of the world is totally different! Like... Squibbles did the map-math back in May to show how big the known world is: [IMG]https://www.enworld.org/attachments/1620852848614-png.136860/[/IMG] That's everything inside the Ringing Mountains, which surround the known world. Here's the Tyr Region for comparison: [IMG]https://www.enworld.org/attachments/1620852953023-png.136863/[/IMG] While I know the world is WAY bigger than that tiny square, or slightly larger shuttlecock shape, the further out we go the more the impetus to put in forests and oceans grows. Making 98% of the rest of the world a massive desert largely devoid of life, or with minimal life that is largely inimical to humanoid life, fits the setting by making the Tablelands the last bastion of real -life- on the world. The only place people can reasonably live which is why they accept the rule of the Sorcerer Kings... they just don't have a choice. There's nowhere else to go. Defiling destroys Plants and simple organisms and Atmospheric Water. It only damages and destroys animals and people if you've started the process to become a Dragon which requires SO MUCH DEFILING before you even get there. The Forest would have defiled itself by the way the setting works. Also... Defiling is a power source for Arcane Magic. It's not just "Something that Happens". Someone has to make that choice and use the magic to accomplish something. This all goes back to adding to and expanding the story of the setting, not just changing it. Wanna know how you could make that forest work -within- the setting without having to either change the story or drastically rewrite how magic functions? Skip out on "Defiling" and "Arcane Radiation" and just make it good old fashion regular radiation that stunts the trees and kills people in the area. You don't go into that forest because it's too dangerous and the radiation source is some meteor that landed in the Green Age that is still throwing off massive quantities of deadly radiation that mutates things in the area. Huzzah! Now we've got a radioactive forest, like you wanted, where going there will slowly kill you. Now... what are you gonna do with it? We've established it's a horrible and deadly forest that not even a Sorcerer King dares venture into for fear of mutation and death... So what's it for? A Sea. Is hiding. A giant purple sea. Okay... same question as the Radioactive Forest: Why? What are we using this massive ocean-sized water-hogging land-amoeba for? The Mountains don't really have an explicit purpose, nope. They're largely (no pun intended) just terrain meant to be dealt with. Well, except the Ringing Mountains, which represent the "Edge of the World", essentially. Grasslands, though? Oases? They're places where Druids have tended the world and started healing it. They're millennia of hard work and careful preparation to return life to lands the Defilers destroyed. They require massive patience and the help of epic-level monsters to restore the world to some small measure. Except the Oases that are traps, or the grasslands held by monsters too strong to drive off. People huddle in Tyr and Balic and Raam and other places because there's Water. Wells of it, oases, occasionally lakes. There's irrigation for fields and food that grows and even gardens in the various palaces of the Sorcerer Kings. They're small communities where Green exists and is jealously guarded. The rest of the planet is either dead, desolate, or dangerous, which is why they stay. They don't have a good choice. It's either live in fear or die in the wastelands. If there are other places that are hospitable: Why stay in the Tablelands? Why not escape to a different, safer, greener, or wetter place? And that's... kinda the point I've been driving. The world needs to be a brutal wasteland for the setting to work without the M. Knight Shymalan twist. Oh, one could certainly create other "Tyr Regions" with totally different features and stuff, even around the Silt Sea itself. But the more you add, the more Green in particular, the more it becomes a question of why people don't just leave. You know why most zombie movies involve a single place with a fence or a wall or something else and no one has cell service? Because the story doesn't work if you can leave. If there's help you can call from beyond those zombies to come and do something about it. The isolation is a big part of what makes it work. And it's kind of what makes Dark Sun work, too. The knowledge that the rest of the world is just as bad, or even worse, than the Tyr Region means leaving really isn't an option. Going beyond the Sea of Silt gets you more of the same, so why traverse it if the same Crimson Sun is going to burn down upon you, regardless? For the sake of argument, let's say you create a New Place. This new place is desolate AF and it's within the Ringing Mountains on the other side of the Sea of Silt. There's a handful of cities, there, largely like the ones in the Tyr region, but different. They're ruled by other people and there's no Dragons or Sorcerer Kings there. Defiling magic is punishable by death, and psionics are still the rule of the day. What's happening, there, what story are you telling, that you can't tell in the Tyr region? And how does that story, and the existence of these other "Free Realms", impact the narrative of a desolate world where your only real choice is to live under the oppressive regime of the Sorcerer Kings? Okay. So let's try it with Sorcerer Kings. Let's say there's 8 city-states with only 6 Sorcerer Kings. And somehow they're unknown to the Tyran Sorcerer Kings and in the dark about the Tyran Sorcerer Kings. What story are you telling, there, that you can't tell in the Tyr region? [/QUOTE]
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