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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7597131" data-attributes="member: 996">I didn't catch that was your argument, and wasn't responding to it, but to the idea of balancing/differentiating fighter &amp; rogue by making the former a defense specialist and the latter an offense specialist.&nbsp; In terms of the evolution of D&amp;D and it's derivatives, that started with 3.0, AFAICT, and was most strongly supported by 4e, prior to Essentials.&nbsp;How could an official version of D&amp;D be irrelevant to that?I also missed that point, too, but it sounds interesting.&nbsp; Shifted in what way, and how is that shift apparent?&nbsp; &nbsp;I totally give 5e credit where it's due:&nbsp;Returning players weren't WotC's fans, they were TSR's.&nbsp; New players starting with 5e weren't fans when 5e was being designed.&nbsp; So, yeah, it's a contrast, or, rather, a supplemental consideration.&nbsp; 5e design considered what would be accessible to potential new fans as well as what then-current fans were saying they wanted.&nbsp; It's a remarkable accomplishment, threading that needle between what makes a game appealing to new players and fun the first time you play it, and what makes it familiar, acceptable, and yet still engaging, to long-time players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7597131, member: 996"] I didn't catch that was your argument, and wasn't responding to it, but to the idea of balancing/differentiating fighter & rogue by making the former a defense specialist and the latter an offense specialist. In terms of the evolution of D&D and it's derivatives, that started with 3.0, AFAICT, and was most strongly supported by 4e, prior to Essentials. How could an official version of D&D be irrelevant to that? I also missed that point, too, but it sounds interesting. Shifted in what way, and how is that shift apparent? I totally give 5e credit where it's due: Returning players weren't WotC's fans, they were TSR's. New players starting with 5e weren't fans when 5e was being designed. So, yeah, it's a contrast, or, rather, a supplemental consideration. 5e design considered what would be accessible to potential new fans as well as what then-current fans were saying they wanted. It's a remarkable accomplishment, threading that needle between what makes a game appealing to new players and fun the first time you play it, and what makes it familiar, acceptable, and yet still engaging, to long-time players. [/QUOTE]

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