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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5337327" data-attributes="member: 22424">That would depend on whether the game requires (or heavily emphasises) the use of minis, as is currently the case, or whether the game will run just fine without (as was the case in the days of the old Red Box). (Of course, where I say minis, I suppose I really mean "some sort of tokens and a battlemat.")Either way, I believe four things should be true of a good Basic Set:1) It should include everything you need to play (okay, maybe not blank paper and pencils!).2) It should get people playing as quickly as possible.3) It must use the same rules as the 'real' game. It may have a much reduced set of options, but it must not use a dumbed down ruleset - or players graduating to the 'real' game will have to relearn things.4) The Basic Set should not be a "pay-for preview". In the old days, when you reached 4th level you bought the Blue Box Expert Set to expand your Red Box Basic Set; you did not throw away the Red Box and move to the hardbacks. With the current Red Box, once you're done with that you move to the Essentials books, and never use the Red Box again.If the game uses minis:Take a look at one of the Warhammer Fantasy Battles/Warhammer 40,000 boxed sets. That's the sort of size of box and price point that the Starter Set should be aiming form. Go big, or go home.Inside the box, I want to see:The Core Rulebook, containing the complete rules for the game, four classes up to at least level 10 (my preferred structure uses the BECM tiers, and would therefore cover the BE tiers, for levels 1-14, but if we're using a 4e-like structure, then cover the Heroic tier), four races, the appropriate feats, powers, magic items, talents, and monsters. Crucially, this should be the same Core Rulebook that is sold separately, and which forms the entry point into the game. The book should be no more than 250 pages in length.A Quick-Start Guide, including a sample solo-play adventure (right at the start), advice for picking characters, a step-by-step tutorial for learning enough of the rules for the first adventure, and so on.An Adventure Guide, containing half a dozen short adventures suitable for play in a couple of hours and with minimal preparation.Pregenerated Characters for each race/class combination at 1st level. Include guidance for levelling up, without requiring the players to follow the advice.Blank Character Sheets and at least one set of Dice.Miniatures or tokens sufficient for all the pregenerated characters and all the monsters used in the adventure guide.Spell Effect markers.Dungeon Tiles suitable for playing all the adventures in the adventure guide.And whatever else I've forgotten.The box should also include a 'bonus' CD containing PDFs of the quickstart guide and the character sheet (with permission to reproduce either or both), an expanded adventure guide with one or two additional adventures, the 'free' version of the Character and Adventure Builder tools, and a link to the vendor website.Each year thereafter, they should put out an expansion box containing a new Adventure Guide (with all-new adventures), more Minis, more Dungeon Tiles, and so on.If the game doesn't use minis (by default):In this case, my Core Rulebook would remain as described above. However in this case my Basic Sets would look quite different.In this case, take a look at the new Red Box. That's about the size and price point that each of the two new boxes should aim for.The first is the Basic Set, which should include a Player's Book and a DM's Book, each of about 64 pages. The Player's Book should start with at least one (short) solo adventure, then quickly outline the four races and four classes for 3 levels (5 would be better), plus all the requisite equipment, powers, and so on. The DM's Book should provide one sample adventure, monsters, magic items, and a quick tutorial for the art of DMing.The only other things in the box should be dice, a blank character sheet, and perhaps a 'bonus' CD containing another adventure, pregenerated characters, and the like.But the key thing that's missing from the current offerings is my second set: the Expert Set.This should include another Player's Book and DM's Book, expanding the game up to 10 levels. Critically, the two boxes between them should cover all of the same ground as the Core Rulebook - they represent a different entry route into the same game, not a different-but-similar game in their own right. Of course, people may choose to replace their Basic and Expert Sets with the Core Rulebook (for convenience), but they shouldn't have to do so in order to play the 'real' game.Either WayIn all honesty, I don't think something like this can reasonably be implemented with the current edition (either of D&D or Pathfinder), as both games are too married to their existing core rulebooks. I'll be very interested to see what Pathfinder does for its new Starter Set (as I was for the Red Box), but I'm not hugely hopeful.Also, either way, I think it's vitally important that the new Starter Set (whatever form it takes) should be launched on the same day (or even just before) the launch of the 'real' version of the new edition. And retailers should be well briefed (as well as possible, anyway) that the answer to "what do I need to play" is "this Starter Set here" - if you present a new player with multiple hardback books as an entry point or, worse, if you start throwing lots of different options around, they'll run a mile.</blockquote>

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