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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steve Conan Trustrum" data-source="post: 7735016" data-attributes="member: 1620">I haven't moved goal posts. I've actually conceeded where you've made points.Your continuing inability to understand what I'm talking about, or refusal to see it as possible, does not a moved goalpost make.You are LITERALLY posting, time and again, just TWO options when you present examples.TWO.As in "either / or" ... "this or that" ... "a or b" ... "1 or 0"You know ... BINARY options.So, just so I'm clear on this again ...When you say "it's contrasting 2 different ways of doing business," which you've presented as the only possible options ...You're saying you AREN'T stuck on presenting binaries?No, it's not just "rewording it". It's an entirely different context and tone.Because when you talk about it, you qualify what you "don't like" as therefore being "unethical," "pocketing" money, "extra" (i.e., above and beyond) money, "hoarding", etc.There is absolutely a distinct difference in what we're saying even if our points cross paths at times and agree on some founding facts.You benefit when you get paid any amount of money you didn't previously have. If merely benefiting is your benchmark, it's pretty low. I get what you're aiming for, but you're presenting it in a rather narrow, unrealistic manner.And let's just get really practical here for a second: the way you're intending to present "benefit" goes in a direction where one must therefore conclude all salaried creators are victims of unethical business practices because their pay isn't scaled to the success of their creations. While this CAN be true, based on how much they are paid, it isn't true by default.So, now let's look at where you're point is failing on another level. When I write for someone in a commercial capacity, yes I'm a creator, but I'm doing so in someone else's sandbox and under their terms, which I can choose to agree to or not. I can say if their terms are fair or not. But I accept I'm working for someone else. What I produce becomes theirs unless I work out something re: IP retention. If I work in construction and "create" a house, I shouldn't have any expectation to earn a share of any rent paid to the property's owner once I'm done at the build site. Do the people who made the clothes you are wearing right now get additional money every time you put them on or is it their responsibility to negotiate a good wage they can accept before they created your clothes?News flash:99% of the RPG industry isn't sustainable in pure business terms if everyone expects a living wage from it.Few people who work in it make above a living wage. That's why the norm is for just about every person creating RPGs to have another job. And that includes most people who own most of the RPG companies. And that isn't necessarily because they are bad business people or crookedly mistreating freelancers. That's the nature of the market's relationship with its creators. So, knowing most publishers are working second jobs to keep outputting products, it seems entirely unrealistic to say that freelancers (and I'm saying this as someone who also still freelances) should be the ones everyone else should break their backs over or "stop existing."If people acted on your view of what this hobby-driven industry came to pass, 99% of publishers would shutter up. And, clearly, removing 99% of the job opportunities available in the market is TOTALLY to the benefit of those freelancers, right?Simple fact: if you're making a living wage in the RPG industry, you're one of the blessed few that have worked through the industry's cracks to become positive outliers. But if you come into the RPG industry EXPECTING to make a living wage, well ... that's just crazy talk.</blockquote>

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