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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 1146929" data-attributes="member: 4134">I disagree. The one level you lag behind more than a wiz/clr isn't that bad. Also, both classes can make something out of charisma, and the skillsets aren't that different - knowledge (arcana), knowledge (religion), spellcraft, concentration. The only thing that isn't in both classes is the knowledge (religion) - and you do get it with mystic theurge. Sure, clr/wiz is more streamlined, but only munchkins take but the optimal choices.Of course you have to give something up to ge BOTH stuff. I don't even allow to unbalance the class levels in that way -> no wiz7/clr3/mt10. I allow the class only if the player agrees on keeping it even more or less. But while you might give up some of the most powerful spells, you do gain both brands of magic. You have good elemental attack spells, good save-or-die-spells good protections, good utility....If you mean a clr/wiz character, it is right more or less, although I believe the mystic theurge did break that rules. But spellcaster/nonspellcaster can be quite effective.Bards can be a good choice up to 20th and beyond. Don't expect to be the best in anything (except social skills), but you are still decent in most things.Maybe his party isn't a bunch of munchkins and likes to have some party member with uses outside of combat. And he's not useless in combat, either...Or you just take both. This leaves you another skillpoint from the recent increase from 4 to 6, which can be put into yet another perform skill, or a knowledge skill, or anything else. Besides, there are quite a lot of instruments, and quite a lot of ways to use you voice, so there is variety in there. After all, the fighter is also only someone who uses a weapon.Sor/Clr/Mt: should work. Don't expect to be best in any kind of magic (that's not what being multiclass is all about, anyway), but you will have access to most spells. Both classes can use charisma (although your turning isn't that good with as few cleric levels as you have) and noone said you couldn't have a decent Int stat, too, for skills (this build is a pure spellcaster, not a combat caster as you find with clerics often. But on the other hand, you can get both divine power and tenser's transformation eventually). Be a buffer and spellslinger.For ultimate synergy of charisma, you might want to become a sorcerer/shugenja/mystic theurge....<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Sor/Clr: Wouldn't do that. You just lose to much. While the mystic theurge will lessen the loss you get from multiclassing (and make it a good choice after all), you will lag way behind here.Sor/Pal: Try to talk your DM into loosing the multiclass restrictions of the paladin. But this build should work, too. Pal12/Sor8 is nice cause you get 4 attacks eventually. Concentrate on buff spells, and other spells that help you in melee. Look up the bladesinger spell list for pointers (found in RoF, Blood and Tome or the free web enhancement of the latter)Bard: This is another good choice. The charisma will work for your spells, for your performance, and for a lot of your skills. You will probably be the most effective character outside of combat (and that is what having high charisma is all about) and be a good addition to the party in combat. You won't be best in anything - besides negotiating and the like - but you will be decent in anything you do. You can focus on one thing or do several things at once. You will be able to accomplish something on your own, and you will be the front of the party, and if you already have the 4 monster food types (fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue), the bard is the ideal addition to the party. And you are really good in Use Magic Device.You have forgotten one build: The Rogue! They also get much out of charisma. Expect to be a skill user first and foremost, but with a maxed out bluff (and Combat Expertise and Improved Feint), you can sneak attack almost anyone, even without sneaking or flanking. And don't underestimate the power of a character with the focus outside of battle: the pen can be more powerful than the sword, and your mouth can outclass both! Take the two feats described above and Weapon Finesse, and you're effective enough in combat. You may want to multiclass into bard. Either way, you can also Use Magic Device.If you want (and are allowed) to play nonstandard races, consider the fey'ri for your rogue built! With your inherent ability to change your shape, your skills and a decent charisma, you will be a great spy and infiltrator. And the daemonic abilities you get help you further.</blockquote>

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